For every guy saying that the grounding did some for his G35, there are 3 others saying it didn't do squat. I've done the search. Then you've got "Infinititech" that says G35s have a very solid electrical grounding system, actually one of the best they've tested and he doesn't see how these grounding kits can be effective. Years ago (~2000) when these things came out, a guy on the Maxima site dynoed with one of these new "Hyper" kits. He saw 5-7whp. Then tons of Maxima owners started buying these kits and the reports started coming in. No change in driveability, no gains on the dyno, and no change at the track. Now these grounding kits are highly discredited on the Maxima site and are referred to as a ricer-bling mod. Same goes for the Unorthodox underdrive pulley. Like someone else pointed out, if these kits are so effective, then why aren't manufacters using them as OEM? When you're building thousands of cars, your cost is a couple dollars in materials and labor per car. Improved driveability, performance, fuel mileage, etc are all things auto manufactuers strive for and if adding a set of heavy duty grounds would help increase the power and help them meet CAFE requirements, the manufactuers would be doing it.

I don't know how many of you have seen an EVO, WRX, or WRX STi dyno, but you'll see that these cars have large swings in power from run to run. One run the car will make 250whp and on the next run it will do 240whp and on the next it will do 255whp. It's just the nature of a turbo motor. Same goes for the VQ motors. Dyno a fairly cool VQ motor vs a warmed up VQ and you'll see 5-7whp favoring the cooler car. On back to back "hot" passes with my Maxima, I saw differences of 5whp with no changes to the car. What can I attribute that power difference too? The way I closed the door, the way I looked at it, how I waved my magic wand?

 

Even with high power mods, once an owner gets used to it, the performance becomes an expected norm. If a manufacturer built in all the mods that made small differences, the driver wouldn't notice any incremental differences and the manufacturer would have a hard time justifying the high cost of even $1 to it's shareholders! Multiplied by the millions in production, the costs quickly add up!

One of the big complaints about the G35 is the lack of noise insulation. Many G35 "enthusiasts" put on intakes and exhausts to increase the noise! How would the manufacturer choose to invest in terms of development and production costs?

And it's not all about horsepower folks. Quietness, smoothness, and response are important factors as well. If you're looking for hp gains on things like intakes, exhausts, and grounding, you're going to be disappointed.

 

Where did you get this? I'd argue that for every dissatisfied post about the G35 on this board, there are hundreds that love the G35 and have never posted it!

Also, all grounding kits are not equal. I've certainly noticed differences in the 3 Commercial kits I've had on my car! In order for a valid quantitative analysis to be made, all things must be equal. Many that reported poor or no results from grounding cheaped out and made their own, or bought knock-off kits from e-bay. Some even used 4 gauge welding cable since "all wire is the same when it comes to resistance"! Come on guys, even audiophiles will tell you that there is a big difference in the way different expensive speaker cables sound. And 40 million Americans that will tell you they can't hear any differences from the stuff they buy at Radio Shack!

Give 2 people Aspirin or any other medication. Even with a med that is proven effective, there is always the chance that one or both will say it didn't do anything for them!

 

This car is not a Maxima. Different cars different mods will affect the car differently. The Grounding kit actually does work on the G35. With all the electronics in cars these days, the better grounding helps them get the most power to those electronics. I have a engineering degree background in electronics so I understand how a grounding kit works Dave. Please don't take your history from the Maxima world and try to relate it to the G35. It won't work.

 

1) Why would a G35 behave differently than a 02-05 Maxima? They both have traction control, 4-way ABS, stability control, electronic automatic trannies, 3.5 VQs with VTC, BOSE stereos, power windows/seats/locks/moonroofs, navigation, etc. The only real difference is FWD vs RWD.

2) I'm not an engineer, but I play one in my office which is an environmental/transportation/civil engineering firm Just because someone in an engineer doesn't qualify them as a reliable source on everything related to engineering. Basically everyone I work with is an engineer and many of them are clueless. I have the same exact duties as they do, but does that somehow disqualify me since I don't have an engineering degree.

It's just not the Maxima crowd that doesn't believe the hype. It's the Acura, Toyota, Lexus, Mazda, and basically any other import make. You don't see the domestic crowd doing these mods do you? I'm sure grounding kits do work for older cars with corroded grounds, but on a late model car? Seriously? They spend millions in R&D and then they just skimp out on something as simple as a basic ground? Doesn't that go against the electronic engineering basics? Hell, I even know that a solid ground is key to good system.

A local G owner and friend with an 03 auto will be installing one of these kits shortly. We'll see what his opinion is of them.

 

Hmmm. Revelation: From all the posts on the comfort of the seats in the G35, for everyone that likes the seats, there are at least 20 that absolutely hate them and using them for any length of time will develop some sort of pain in their right sides!

The fact is, rarely do people post positives on forums like this. This is especially true if they are going to be attacked because it goes against the popular view (like with grounding). Anyone that’s been here for a long time, knows that with every batch of newbies that joins the forum, a war will start somewhere for and against grounding. The veterans get tired of constantly defending themselves, especially for a mod that arguably yields minimal power gains, even though it’s been proven time and time again to result in extra smoothness, and better throttle response (both of which are difficult to measure). I know that gordgee has had his share of attacks, which is why he rarely joins in the fray anymore. He posted his dyno results way back (last year?) just to inform the members and was immediately challenged to pay to re-dyno and do this to the satisfaction of the skeptics, and he did so successfully. Despite this, the skeptics continue, and even though independent magazine testing sometimes show even greater gains, it doesn’t seem to matter. He’s told me that it just isn’t worth it to post replies and data on the forum. He continues to do R&D, but doesn’t post the results here as it’s bound to be attacked as being biased. He now focuses on his commercial base, and I understand he’s gained considerable headway with the automotive community.

The same thing is happening now on a different thread with plenum spacers. The guy posts interesting findings, and some are now considering, but many are attacking. Many will now consider spacers that otherwise wouldn’t have, some will even look for the first time at after-market plenums. Even more will try the 11 gasket spacer since it’s cheap, but would never pay several hundred for he real thing! Sound familiar?

I too was a skeptic about grounding, and I’ve been doing mods longer than many of you have been driving, or even alive! Before I bought that first Sun Auto kit, I did my research. One of my good friends was the head of a Technical Institute that trains and certifies Automotive Technicians. To my surprise (he usually poo-poos most mods as gimmicks), his eyes brightened up and he actually said “You know, this thing might just work!” Shocked, I sought further verification before I laid my hard-earned cash on what I thought was “ricer snake-oil”. I subsequently spoke to a few friends and acquaintances that were Electrical Engineers, and to my surprise, they all validated at least some of the theory! It was one of them that pointed out that though cars are electrically grounded, little is done in terms of signal grounding (you’re welcome Gord- though your EE also confirmed this). Take a look at the speaker wires that come with Theater-In-A-Box type systems. Sure, they’re okay to get you going, but how many of you seriously use those rather than your own cables? They provide perfectly adequate grounding and enough signal to satisfy at least 80% of the buyers, just as cars are usually adequately grounded at the factory. One of my clients is an automotive electrical tech. Interestingly, he’s the one that said he didn’t think the grounding would do anything (even he’s now changed his tune after I said I’d waive billing for a session to get him to try it). Just look at those tiny little wires that are OEM grounds in your engine bays. It looks like the manufacturers somehow know they importance of adding an extra ground, and did the minimal to ensure it was provided! If you check with a meter, you’ll usually find that the wire is already ground continuous, so why would they actually pay good money to run the ground to another point? Hmmmm.

As far as Infiniti Tech, where is he now? As a professional in human behaviors, I’ll tell you that real experts usually don’t give out advice for free on forums like this if it’s their chosen profession. It’s underlying feelings of inferiority that cause them to post so that they receive positive feedback in order to counter low self esteems. It’s usually because they get poor feedback from their bosses or the shop foreman and they need “strokes” from others that can put them in higher perceived esteem. I’ll bet you that he dropped out of participating here because he started getting less positives, and more were questioning his “wisdom”. How much would you like to bet he has also moved to another dealership? I’d watch whom you were setting up as your idols and “experts”, especially here on the anonymous Web! Do you seriously think I would give a free lecture to a group of psychiatrists, or participate in a psychology forum and give free advice when I can make a living at it? Of course not. I’d hang around forums that are interests or hobbies for me and put up with people that I normally wouldn’t talk to unless I were paid for the sake of enjoying the company and information of those that are open minded and pleasant.

DaveB, I certainly respect your posts and believe that you try to share your experiences, and I agree with much of what you've said in the past. But, grounding is one of the things I now defend because I also had the same negative thoughts as you. I was wrong, and now I'd like to make others aware that sometimes, we just don't have the right sets of experiences to make a valid comment. I vowed to try to help others, or to stamp out ignorance in my day to day life. It's what I'm trying to do here, but it looks like people will make their own arguments, and be oblivious to data presented, siply because it doesn't fit their belief systems!

 

exactly! i forgot about this part of the argument, but that was mentioned before too ...

 

Hmm, that's seems like an odd statement. Every sensor on the engine has it's own ground wire, that eventually joins with other sensors' ground wires, right before it goes directly to the ECU, -not- the engine block or chassis. Sounds like they got that covered. In fact, the sensors' circuits don't even operate on the same voltage range as the chassis electrical system, and don't share a ground. Sounds like your EE doesn't know vehicle electrical systems very well...

Anyway, I am not saying it does not help, but the point I want to make is nobody has explained -exactly- why this works (if it does). I seriously doubt it improves the sensors accuracy, because adding ground straps did ZERO to the resistance based sensors ability to report a voltage because you did not add anything to those circuits. Same goes for the cam/crank sensors, which, because of their sensitvity to EMI, are already highly shielded and each have dedicated grounds to the ECU.

The only thing I can think of is that it take less energy to drive the alternator and it take less energy to fire the plugs, since this is the only area a grounding kit has affected, improving the ground to the engine block. Perhaps the alternator is takes less HP to drive because it has less resistance to charge the battery. And parhaps charging coils takes less energy because it takes less energy to jump the spark plug, because the heads have a better ground.

Anyway, these are still theories, but at least the one above is more "grounded" in reality It would be really nice if someone who really denfends this mod could do some actual measurement on the electrical system. Actually, the magazines, you know, the ones we shell out our cash for, really dropped the ball on this -they should quit being dyno queens and get their *** in gear and do some follow up on this.

 

Exactamundo. THe last year and a half or so people join these arguments without the knowledge of the last generation of enthusiasts who understand the benefits (even if they can't explain it or prove empircally to a PHD in nuclear scientist why it works) and understand more than just plain old HP.

...So now there are people who have never had a kit who are touting all thier genuis that know nothing about the product including why it may work not to mention because they DO NOT HAVE IT AND HAVE NEVER TRIED IT. Lets take a poll and count the folks who have a a grounding kit that think it does nada and a those who have never tried it and think it does nada.

Those who have the kit can speak to them all they would like and the rest should not be taken seriously. The only thing worse than not having the MIT thesis on why it works and reacting positivley to it on a qualitative and subjective basis is not ever having tried a grounding kit and talking smack about WHY it doesn't work. You can not disprove a hypothesis by ignoring it. Get one and the smart money will take you serisously. For every newbie who buys a load of crap there is one who actually tried it and liked it without having anything other than a curious whim that allows just enough of an open mind to appreciate that you shouldn't take advice from a from someone who never evn tried one!

The people who search this topic will find that some peculiar trends if they delve back into 2 years of threads. The ones with the loudest negative comments are the ones who have no basis from which to speak thier opinion other than speculation. After 100 people get into the naysay camp that THINK it's about horsepower the less likely this argument can even be contained into a meaningful or uselful discussion. At this point we are at the lowest member denominator of possible usefulness for discussion of this product. How about just try it and if you don't like it take it off. Ego catfish have killed the chance of this discussion ever reaching a reasonable tone.

In my 2+ years on this board there is only one credible member still here that I Can think of that tried it and didn't like it. The 3-4 I have not remembered will hopefilly forigive me.

 

PS I have admitted mod mistakes in the past and am willing to make mistakes modding. The injen intake is mod F up #1

 

I thought I was the only one who noticed he dissapeared. He was a real crack up. He once said he had two G's in his dealership in one week that failed because of the UR or other aftermarket crank pulley being "un-dampened". Then when I finally got to the bottom of it he admitted he couldn't attribute, without guessing, causation of the engine failures to anything let alone the pulley. If a hunk of billet Aluminum needs a glued on rubber ring to stop the belts from causing vibrations at the crankshaft then they should stop driving accesories with the crank altogether...

^^ Another topic that is often dilluted with pollution and unwanted noise. Yet there are some who have manuevered through the logic and find the meat in the threads that offer some substantial reasoning - na or yea. That is one topic the Maxy sites were helpful for.

And I wonder if Infinitech was moved to another location or fired. I think he told people where he worked and that must have backfired

 

The fact that not a single car community can conclusively prove that grounding kits work is pretty hard to ignore. The sampling data is too inconclusive, and things like smoothness and quickness of things are purely subjective. My car starts up .00001 milliseconds faster, right!! The miracle that is occurring is commonly referred to as placebo effect. When you do something to make your car faster, smoother, quieter, etc. then after it's installed you observe changes that aren't really changes because you are: A) sub-consciously making yourself feel better about your time/money B) are paying closer attention to subtle details that you never noticed (like this car is pretty smooth).

Even more expensive sports cars don't deploy these super-expensive grounding kits, nor do super luxury/smooth cars. I think Toyota/Lexus would spend the extra $10 per LS430 to make it smoother, quieter, etc.

If there's this much controversy over something, then chances are it's either bogus or it's too hard to prove. If it's too hard to prove, then the benefits are so minimal that it shouldn't be considered anyways. $75 plus time on a mod that is so marginal if anything at all is not a good value any which way you look at it. Whether it works or not, it can't be proven, thus if it does improve things, it improves them so minisculely that it's value is worthless.

Spend your $75 on one more detail job, you'll feel better about your car and your money spent.

 

The VQ crank is forged steel, not billet alumnium. And like any other crank on the market, the VQ crank has a natural vibration at certain rpms. That's the reason for the elastomer damper sandwiched inside the crank pulley. I doubt an UDP will cause a VQ to fail due to the stout nature of the crankshaft, it's short length, 4-bolt mains, and end cap cage/girdle, but I can't say that the UDP couldn't cause abnormal crankshaft bearing wear over many years use. I had an UDP on my Maxima and it didn't do squat except cause a little engine vibration throughout the rpm range and cause bogs on launches and lower rpm shifts.


Herein lies the problem. If the mod really does something on every car, it would be easily noticed and can be shown on dynos and track runs. Add a $180 y-pipe to a 95-99 Maxima and you get an instant 12whp/15wtq from 3500-6500rpms. It repeatable, dyno after dyno, and track run to track run. Same with the JDM Variable Intake manifold and JWT ECU for the 95-97 Maxima. Add these too components and you gain 10-50whp/wtq (yes 50) anywhere from 5500-7200rpms and your ETs drop by .3-.4 and gain 3-5mph. It's repeatable everytime. That's stuff that not debateble and that's the kind of stuff I'm looking for. I don't need 12whp+ gains, but I want stuff that can be seen, dyno after dyno, run after run.

From what I can tell, my 03 G35 hasn't had any TSB updates. My car starts on the first crank everytime, the tranny downshifts very quickly in MM, upshifts almost instantly in MM at part throttle, and it has the typical .5 second lag on the MM upshift at WOT. The VQ is very smooth and the only vibrations I get from the driveline are the typical low resonance slight vibrations when the torque converter is locked up in 4th or 5th gear at low mphs (35-45mph). I don't see how wires could help that because every automatic does that and it has nothing to do with electronics. My biggest gripe is the throttle by wire and how obvious it is that the Nissan nannys are keeping an eye on my right foot and adjusting for how much I push down on the pedal.

 

Get a kit, lose the subjectivity and don't assume you add value to this conversation when you speak from a theoritical perspective about something you admit is not understood. If you don't own one then assuming anything you puport is worthwhile is akin to taking portfolio management advice from an future intern stockboker still in the womb. Get a kit and then your subjectivity will seem like a review which someone may find useful.

I was referring to the UR crank pulley which lacks the glued on rubber band that supposedly stops the engine from flying apart. LOL

When will you GET IT. This is not even something for which a hypothesis can even be created to proove. It is not about horseys or power and it's not making you faster.

There are several including possibly the crank sensor.

Maybe you should try them before you spend all that time convincing people of something while you only wonder.