Ok I've never leased a car before but here's what I'm looking at. I'm looking at a 2008 G35 with Sport, Prem, Nav, Splash Guards, Net, Mat and Spoiler. The MSRP (Edmunds) is $40,685 and the current price is $35,585. I asked just out of curiosity what the lease payment would be for 36 months with 12k miles per year and I was told $657 using Tier 0 (the best) credit. That just sounds rediculously high to me. I was thinking it would come it at 450-475 a month. That figure is for 39 months (he told me that was the best term in terms of price) with 12k miles per year and a downpayment of only the first month's payment of $657 out of pocket. As I said before...never leased a car but I will only be driving 10-12k a year and figured leasing would be better. When I asked what money factor he was using he said he didn't know exactly but that it was .002XXX.

Can anyone help out here?

Thanks,
Jason

 

G-funk,

Tell that dealer to go play in traffic... that is a miserable deal I wouldn't even consider it.

1.) You shouldn't have to pay much more than invoice when negotiating price (important part of lease) due to current market 09 sedans etc...

2.) Money factor is sort of like an interest rate so he should know that figure and it should be reasonable. If the money factor is 0.00209, your interest rate will be 5%.

3.) The third part of a lease is the residual value of the car. This is pre-determined by the dealer and is the only reason I can see that your payment is so high.

My guess is that knowing the 09 sedan is coming out with much anticipation they assume that the 07+ sedan will lose considerable value (accurate) and so the residual value drops thus making you pay more depreciation during the term of your loan.

I am in my first lease and the deal I got was: 08 Black on Black sedan with sport wheels (not s) navigation, back up camera, splash guards etc...

$0 cash down, in fact they paid my first month
18k miles
$540 a month
39 months

All in all I thought it was a pretty good deal but comparatively speaking $657 is WAY too much.

Hope that helps, if you need anything else let me know i did months of research on G35 Driver and everywhere else.

 

I just went through this.

Lease rates and residuals can be found online.

As original poster said - always start at sale price of the car. IFS money factors and residuals are fixed so that makes it easy to compare. You also have to see what $$ is needed to close (i.e. 1st month, tax, bank fee, etc).

As an FYI - I got a great deal:
35x Nav, Tech, Premium, Cargo net & mudflaps
MSRP: $41,720
Invoice: $38,452 (or something close - I can't remember right now)

I only paid 1st month, bank fee and tax and tags (no other money down)
Payment is $499 (including 9% tax so about $455 without tax)

Hope that helps!

Jay

 

Jay,

Thanks for the post. I have a few questions/comments

1) What was the negotiated sales price of the car you purchased?

2) When did you buy it? As in date? Where?

3) How many months? How much were the fees including your first month that you paid out of pocket?

3) The MSRP of the car I'm looking at is $40,685 with an invoice of $37,032 (including destination charge) according to Edmunds. The agreed upon sales price is $35,585 which is about $1447 BELOW invoice. I know my credit is Tier 0 which he said is what he used to come up with the $657 number. That would be me paying ONLY the first month's payment out of pocket which is $657. It makes NO sense since if I financed 100% including the 6.25% Texas sales tax and fees (Title, Registration, Inspection sticker, doc fees and dealer inventory tax) for 0.9% over 60 months with IFS, I'd be paying $648 a month...so how the hell can my lease payment be MORE than my loan payment? I was figuring the payment would be around $259-$453 since lease paymens are typically 30-60% lower than finance payments AND considering Infiniti won the ALG 2008 Residual Value Award so I don't see how they could be screwing me there and since you guys say the values are set.

4) Where are these values you say you can find online?? I don't see the IFS money factor or residual values anywhere.

Thanks for the help! I knew this was a bad deal...just trying to figure out where they came up with it so I can go back to them with what they did.

Thanks,
Jason

 

Here are the lease rates for August. It looks like they are continuing them for Sept.

2008 Infiniti G35 Base Sedan
24 Month – Residual 67% of MSRP – .00103 Base Rate
36 Month – Residual 57% of MSRP – .00134 Base Rate

2008 Infiniti G35 Journey Sedan
24 Month – Residual 66% of MSRP – .00103 Base Rate
36 Month – Residual 56% of MSRP – .00134 Base Rate

2008 Infiniti G35 Sport Sedan
24 Month – Residual 66% of MSRP – .00103 Base Rate
36 Month – Residual 56% of MSRP – .00134 Base Rate

2008 Infiniti G35 X Sedan
24 Month – Residual 68% of MSRP – .00147 Base Rate
36 Month – Residual 58% of MSRP – .00167 Base Rate

2008 Infiniti G37 Coupe
24 Month – Residual 73% of MSRP – .00190 Base Rate
36 Month – Residual 63% of MSRP – .00216 Base Rate

2008 Infiniti G37 Journey Coupe
24 Month – Residual 70% of MSRP – .00190 Base Rate
36 Month – Residual 60% of MSRP – .00216 Base Rate

2008 Infiniti G37 Sport Coupe
24 Month – Residual 71% of MSRP – .00190 Base Rate
36 Month – Residual 61% of MSRP – .00216 Base Rate

* Residuals posted are for 15K miles/year. Use 1% higher residual for 12k miles (used to be 2% but hey, times they are a changin!)


In answer to your other questions:

1. Negotiated sale price: Ended up just about invoice price. However, I applied my $500 loyalty payment to $$ down and I also negotiated for them to pick up my last month's lease payment. So in my mind I got the car for about $600 under invoice and just applied the $500 as add'l cap cost reduction. (Note: I did NOT have them 'roll' the lease into the deal. They were going to give me a check for that last lease payment but I would have put a bit of $$ into it so I figured that would about even out. My only out of pocket was the roughly $1300 for 1st mo pymt, bank fee, taxes and tags. I normally wouldn't have used the $500 for anything other than lowering my out of pocket but I liked getting the total payment under $500 so I had them throw it in there.

2. I just bought it last Wed. at Ardmore outside of Philadelphia. Great experience by the way. Seems they are doing a lot to shed their previously undesirable reputation.

3. My lease was for 24 months/12k miles. See above #1 for my out of pocket, etc.

4. Do your self a favor. Especially now with the current low financing rates - do NOT try to compare a financed payment to a lease payment. The purchase $$ is very cheap and that definitely makes a difference in payment. If you use a 'rule of thumb' percentage you are doing yourself a disservice and painting a bullseye on your forehead for the dealer as they'll know you don't know what you are talking about. It's all about math. If you do a google search you can find a ton of lease calculators out there. Use the numbers above and put them into a calculator to figure out what your payment should be. You have the most important item: the sale price. As long as you aren't putting any money into it I have to say that $1,447 under invoice is darn good in my book. If they go IFS the selling price is the only variable.

My advice, google a calculator and use the residuals and money factors above to find your payment. I'm coming up with a rough number of about $425 - $430/month (without taxes - not sure about your state amounts, etc). A payment in the $600's is ridiculous. You can get a fully loaded M for close to that!

I hope that helps. You would do well to look at the leasing sections of Edmunds and other sites (a site: 'ridewithg' often has the lease numbers and that's where I borrowed the above info). I think you negotiated the tought part - the sale price. That's often overlooked and is the single most important piece of the puzzle. As long as they aren't rolling any other costs or remaining lease payments or using your car as a trade and putting the equity shortfall into the deal I think they just made a big booboo with the calculation. Maybe go back and give the dealer a call to confirm the math.

I usually have them print out the different scenarios so I can see EVERYTHING. I always say when you buy/lease a car the first question they ask is "What do you want your payment to be?" Then they put all of the numbers into a paper bag and pull out your payment. What was the sale price? - who knows! The money factor or interest rate? - anyone's guess. Did they throw in anything extra? - how would you know - it's a paper bag and it's not transparent.

If they print out the numbers and you make sure they all jive there should be no questions.

I hope that helps. Good luck and keep us posted on your next shot at this. Hopefully you'll be much better armed this time!

Hope this helps.

Jay

 

Jay,

Ok so get this. Thanks for the post by the way!! Great information!! I came up with the same numbers you did. So I called the guy back and told him that he was WAY OFF from my numbers and I was really polite and respectful but told him to take down my e-mail address and e-mail the numbers that were used to come up with that $657 number so that I could see where the big difference was. I told him that I suspected they were using a really low residual value but he told me he couldn't give me the money factor, residual value, fees, etc. I then told him that it's public information and that only the sales price should be the variable factor which we had already agreed on. He then changed his tune and said if I came in they could show me on a computer screen or I could call his finance manager and they could go over it with me on the phone. I told him I didn't have time for that since I was out and about to have dinner with family so I wanted him to e-mail it to me so I could look at the numbers on my phone. Well he said he was pretty sure he couldn't but would ask his manager and get back to me and I said that was fine and that I understand he had bosses to answer to. I told him either way to let me know and I haven't heard from him since. Isn't that messed up that they are telling me I have to come in to see the numbers on the screen or possibly get them over the phone with the finance manager?? Just rediculous in my book...why can't they e-mail them to me...they're no super secret!

Jason

 

Ok, glad that info helped. I have to say though, if they give you that info over the phone they've pretty much lost you as a customer. As much as I always want to get a VERY fair deal on a car lease/purchase I also very much respect that the sales guy and dealership have to make a living as well. I'm sure they've given out the numbers to buyers before and those buyers simply call around to every dealer until someone beats their deal by ten cents.

In fairness to them I would recommend that you let them know that you are VERY serious and if the numbers make sense then you would be willing to buy the car (that is if you really are ready to pull the trigger). I think you then would do well to set up an appointment and show them that you are serious enough to take the time to meet with them. It should make them feel better about being able to close you on the spot instead of you having the opportunity to shop.

Again, until they think they have a sale they aren't going to put a lot of effort into the transaction. While I don't agree with that mentality I can certainly understand it. You are asking them to do a decent amount of work for you without any promise of getting a sale. They've done that a thousand times and only closed a few of the cars.

It sounds like their sale price on the car is pretty darn good so if you have the lease numbers (again, I would keep an eye out to confirm they haven't changed for Sept but it appears they are the same) then it's all just plugging in the numbers.

The fact that they haven't called you back shows that they don't feel you are a serious buyer at this point. If that is the case you won't get the service you desire. I know it's not fair but remember, these people get paid to SELL cars not arm buyers with info so they can go elsewhere.

I've always found a very friendly approach with a commitment to buy soon (or now if the numbers work) makes them work harder to get the deal done. I would call them back and tell them you are ready to move and you would like to meet and see the numbers. Tell them you are concerned about the payment they came up with but DON'T TELL THEM WHAT YOU WANT THE PAYMENT TO BE OR WHAT NUMBERS YOU CAME UP WITH - that would then become their bullseye! Remember the paper bag!

One thing I would confirm -re: the 'selling price' of $1400+ below invoice. Make sure they aren't applying the $1000 PURCHASE cash on the lease. You can't combine both. Additionally, I would get the purchase price without any loyalty cash, conquest cash or any other Infiniti incentives. Then you can decide how to apply them.

If you are in the market and you are ready to buy - give the guy a call and tell him the above. I guarantee you'll get a different response if you offer to go in and meet with them. Get your numbers and then take them home to read them over. It's easy to lose track of things at the dealership. They are set up to keep you off kilter and move quickly so you don't have time to calculate everything. If you like the car and the selling price offer a $500 refundable deposit and tell them you want to go over the numbers and will call them in the am. Or skip the deposit and just sleep on it.

Most important is that they will NOT print out things and hand them to you (typically). So I would bring a notebook and write down EVERY number so you can go home and do your calcs on your own.

Again, good luck and keep us posted!

Jay

 

Thanks again for the response. I'm definitely ready to buy and this guys knows it. I'm very keen on purchasing vehicles I've just never leased one before because it's never made sense in my life situation but this time it does. I was actually in the market for two new cars a few months ago when I first met my salesman and he knows I'm serious since I already ended up buying a 2008 Honda Accord V-6 EX-L Coupe for one of the cars. Initially I was looking for a loaded (meaning with Tech and IKPs) but they couldn't find one anywhere so I gave up on getting that and decided I could add the IKPs later and just decided the Tech wasn't really that big of a deal. They happend to have the car I want but I was upfront with the guy and told him that I'm in no hurry and that I will wait for the right deal...if this is the right deal I'll buy now, if not I know the 09s are coming and I'll wait. I just told him that his numbers are way off and I needed to see how they arrived at that. I did tell him what I figured the numbers to be but he said and I quote "There is no way your payment could be that low if you don't put anything down except the first month's payments...it's mathematically impossible". At that point, I knew he DIDN"T know what he was talking about. His numbers for purchasing weren't even correct since he told me it was like $7XX a month to purchase with the 0.9%. That makes no sense since when I run the numbers for $35,585 (purchase price including the $3K dealer cash) with 6.25% sales tax and about $275 in fees, I come up with $648 which is $9 less than the lease number they gave me! When I told him that he said yeah that's because of the "awesome" 0.9%. I told him that with a $35K car, 0.9 vs. say 5.0 is only a $70 a month difference max and that there's no way a lease payment should EVER be MORE than a purchase payment. He keeps trying to get me to purchase the car and I don't want to outright purchase it and I told him that. At this point why wouldn't I wait for the 2009s....they're guaranteed to have lease specials with the sport, nav and prem package way less than $657 a month.

BTW--the purchase price of $35,585 DOES include the $3K dealer cash. There is no conquest cash anymore and I'm not a returning IFS customer so there's no loyalty cash in there either...just the $3K dealer cash whether I lease or buy.

Jason

 

2 things come to mind:

1. It's time for a new sales person
2. I'm guessing he gave you an incentive on the 'sale' price that is not available on a lease and now he is pushing the purchase vs. lease b/c he might not be able to do the invoice - $1447 on a lease.

If you are serious you should just set up an appointment with the sales manager to go over the numbers. You are banging your head against a wall with this ding dong. There are some knowledgeable sales people out there and there are sales people that couldn't find their left hand with their right hand. You, my friend, are dealing with the latter.

So either find another dealer, ask for another sales person or talk directly with the sales manager and set up that appointment.

Again, that seems like a good price so if you are satisfied with that stop frustrating yourself waiting for this guy to turn into a service oriented professional. If hes doesn't get it by now he ain't gonna get it . . . get it?!!!!

You may end up kicking yourself if you could get the 08 with what you want at a very reasonable monthly payment and when you look back you missed the opportunity and it was because you were playing this game with the salesman. I'm sure you won't even worry about it if the payments go up $60-$80 over the next month or two when you want to look at the 09's. You will end up kicking yourself.

Just call the sales manager and go from there. This is a waste of your time at this point. Good price, IFS numbers (if they are the same) shouldn't change so it's just math.

One other thing - if they are not going through IFS they may be using another, external bank so they make $$ on the financing end. If that is the case you should find out b/c most 3rd party banks that are leasing these days are not doing anything to incentivise residuals or money factors. I've seen rates as high as 12%!!! If that's the case, this could easily skew the numbers. This is why you need all of the numbers and info.

Perhaps they are trying to make up the lost profit on the good car price by jacking up a 3rd party financing option that pays them good money on the back end. One never knows - again, it's the paper bag!

I think your path is clear. Let us know what the sales manager says.

good luck.

Jay

 

Please keep in mind that rates and residuals change throughout the year, and the deals other members had earlier in the year may not be possible anymore.

I've seen payments change as much as 40 dollars HIGHER from a few days ago to now with the new rates, keeping all other variables the same.

 

Good point Mike. That's why I keep stressing to get the numbers that the salesperson is using so he can calculate that for himself.

My guess is that the salesperson either isn't seeing value in spending the time or isn't calculating things correctly.

I guess we'll find out soon enough!

Jay

 

I picked up my '08 G35x with Nav and premium package about two weeks ago. I am paying $614 / mo. for 39 months, 25K miles per year and only had to pay the first payment up front, no fees. Sounds like your dealer is screwing you or I got a helaciously good deal. I live in Kansas City and there is only one Infiniti dealer in town and he was trying to screw me too, so I went to St. Louis where there are two Infinit dealers. That way there was more competition. I got mine at Plaza Motors.

 

So let me get this straight...all I keep getting told is that all the values are set by infiniti EXCEPT the sales price (cap cost) which I already know ($35,585 INCLUDING the $3K dealer cash) and you have 25K per year on a 39 month lease for less than what I was quoted for 12k? LOL This is just stupid.

The $3K dealer cash is dealer cash which means that the dealer gets that money from the manufacturer REGARDLESS of whether I purchase or lease the car. At this price I would pay, $35,585, the dealer is still making a big profit since that's over 1500 over invoice when you take out the 3K which comes out of IFS pocket NOT the dealer's. Looks like I won't be buying a G anytime soon.

 

G-Funk - hey man - as someone trying to help you out here I would just recommend that you take a deep breath. Now it's starting to sound more like you want to prove someone wrong rather than getting a good deal on a car. I don't mean this as a flame in any way shape or form. I just can't understand why you aren't taking some of the advice here.

If you truly want to consider getting the car just call the sales manager and express everything that you've typed here. No one can do anything more for you here than offer advice and experiences. What you do with that advice is up to you.

I do think you have a good point about the dealer cash though. I didn't even know they were doing $3k cash back. If that's the case then your dealer is making invoice plus $1500 plus their holdback. If the $3k is coming from Infiniti then a)I got screwed and bought 3 days too early b) then you should be able to go to invoice minus the $3k. Now the dealer is still at invoice and they haven't dipped into their holdback. The trick is finding a dealer willing to do that.

Long story short - if you are ok with the sale price then talk to the sales mgr and get the other numbers and be done with it. Shaking your fist at the sky won't get you a good deal on a G. Talking to the mgr might.

Good luck and I will check back to see if you ever speak to anyone in authority at the dealership or what you end up doing.

Cheers!

Jay

 

Don't worry I don't have thin skin. I just think this whole lease thing is stupid. I called and talk to the sales manager and he was really cool and laid back. Here's the numbers and by the way, even though it doesn't say it anywhere on Edmunds site, apparently the $3K dealer cash is ONLY if the car is purchased...it does not apply to IFS leases. The dealership I'm talking about doesn't negotiate on price so yeah the price of $38,585 is rediculously high for a 2008 that has been on the lot for awhile.

Purchase Price = $38,585
Cap Cost = $779.05
Money Factor = 0.00220
Residual Value = 54%
Term = 39 months
Acquisition Fee = $595
Doc Fee = $50
Title = $33
Road/Bridge Fee = $11.50
Insurance Dep. Fee = $6.00
Inspection Fee = $23.75
Dealer Inventory Tax = $59.80
Payment = $657/mo with First month's payment down

Like I said...looks like I won't be a G owner anytime soon. Paying $15XX over invoice with the dealer getting the holdback as well means they're making well over $2K on that car...that's rediculous I'm sorry. I understand the business and agree they should make profit but not over $2K. Oh well.