Not sure what you mean by drag racing, but at the drag strip, all I notice is that the BMW is slower to get back on the power when shifting fast at redline (VERY slight delay but I can't get the car to chirp in the next gear which my G35 always did). I was told this was due to a CDV (clutch delay valve) that BMW uses and that alot of people have removed. It causes a small lag between shifts that is there even at slow speeds but more noticeable when your really on it. I guess that could be the lag you are talking about in between shifting.

But I will tell you that if I am lugging around at low speeds and get on the gas, the pull is immediate - no lag.

Have you driven a 335 for an extended period of time?

 

Yes, I took one for a few days and put about 400 miles on it. It was indeed a 6MT, but I simply assumed the clutch was just barely able to cope with the torque. In hindsight, with the reflashes available, it is obvious to me that the clutch is more than capable of holding the torque. (I have some experience with CDVs... it was the first mod to happen to both of my s2ks ) I can understand why the CDV is there; it slips the clutch to protect the rest of the drivetrain. It also makes for somewhat of a smoother shift since the engagement is delayed over a small period of time instead of being abrupt. In the case of the Honda, it was put there primarily to protect the fragile rear diff, and also to keep the engine in its VTEC window on a 1-2 shift. A CDV-removed F22C will fall out of VTEC on a 1-2 shift unless the redline is raised (and thus, having a later shift).

The AT 335s I've driven exhibit very minimal turbo spool-up time. It is similar to Terry's G35 in that even without boost, there is still a significant amount of power available. It is vastly different from the typical low compression high boost engine; they are both high compression low boost engines. Thus, when you stab at the gas pedal, the immediate response disguses most of the spool up time. If the tranny has to downshift, the time spent downshifting alone is more than enough for the turbos to spool.

Given the extremely low spool up range on the 335's engine, it feels like there is no spool up time. EVOs and STIs are notorious for their late spools. However, try going WOT from a standing 4500RPMs. You'll notice that there is minimal spool-up time; you're already in the car's boost window.



To put all this in perspective, I'll give you a real world demo. Just for simplicity due to similar lower-end gearing, I'll compare a 5AT G35 to a 6AT 335. We'll use both cars with DSC/VDC off. Go to about 45-50mph in either car in 2nd gear using the manual mode. While maintaining that speed, floor it, so that there is a sudden influx of power. The G will break traction. The 335 will not. The reasoning behind this is that all of the G's power is available instantly, while the 335 only has about 65% of the available power instantly available. Gearing/RPM/torque advantages/disadvantages are pretty close to being evened out at that speed in 2nd gear.

*edit*

I should add, that FWIW, that the CDV had minimal effect on me chirping the tires on my s2k.... I still can barely chirp the 1-2 shift, and that's only if I purposely go out of my way to do it. I have a suspicion that my lightened flywheel may have something to do with that

 

Gotta love the never-ending 335 vs G debate It's nice to discuss with someone who understands the math and physics behind all this.

I learn something new every day.

 

One thing to remember is that the 3 is most likely conservatively rated at 300, more likely in the area of 315-320. On average, they dyno in the mid to high 280s (6MT), which places the crank HP over 300.

 

^^ totally agree.

On the other hand, the G whistles over 6k... something tells me that Nissan is choking the engine... ( to protect it? or to reduce peak output for 'future improvements'? or does it just do that and I'm reading too far into it? )

 

Brake boosting the Auto 335I must be interesting

 

I'm fortunate enough to have one of each, but they're both great cars and each has their own distinct advantages in different areas.

Stock for stock, as said before, it's purely a drivers race. A few hundred dollars of mods on the 3 equates to a totally different story. Hasn't this been beaten to death enough already ?

 

It has, but it's come back alive with the 09 getting the 3.7 and a 7AT. The VHR's powerband is thicker than the HR's... significantly thicker.

 

Oh and btw, the CDV mod makes a big difference. When you compare the two side by side, the modified CDV innards are much larger. It eliminates that horrible 1-2 shift delay big time

 

I haven't driven one, but does the increase in HP along with the gearing difference make up for the increase in weight? I thought I remember reading somewhere that the 35 ended up being as fast or slightly quicker (or am I off base)?

 

It more than makes up for the weight gain...

 

Pretty sure the G37 will be quicker, or at least the 7AT will be. A recent road test ran a 13.7 I believe with the 7AT.

 

^ The 335 has consistently run 13.4-13.6 in most reviews. Regardless of the minuscule amount of turbo lag, it reaches peak torque much faster and over a much broader range. The steep drop off in HP beyond 6k rpm is its limiting factor, and i suspect that many races that are lost are a result of eager drivers holding them to the limiter.

I think the 37 will give it some damn good competition though. In the end, the only reason the 3 series ever lose in a comparison is price, and i am pretty sure that this will remain the deciding factor in any victory that can be claimed over it. It may be 15 or 20 percent more expensive, but at least up until now it's been 15 or 20 percent more car as well

 

Does it really matter who is faster, the G or the 335i, if one steps back and looks at what both cars can achieve vs other cars. The results are similar. The article has pretty much concluded that both cars are pretty much interchangeable except for
1-A need for somewhat better refinement
2-How deep your pockets are

On 1, all I can say is if one asks thyself "Is the G a refined car", I doubt anyone would say No. Its good to know the G is in the 335is face in just 5 years from its introduction.

 

but nobody wants to be the loser

Look at the perpetual Evolution vs STI battles... those two cars are at a completely different level, but perform so similarly. Yet, the two are ALWAYS at it.

Some others would be Supra vs Skyline, s2000 vs 350z...