Motive - BMW 335i Sedan vs. Infiniti G37S Sedan
#1
01-09-2009, 12:14 AM
Motive - BMW 335i Sedan vs. Infiniti G37S Sedan
Motive - BMW 335i Sedan vs. Infiniti G37S Sedan
http://www.motivemag.com/pub/feature...7S_Sedan.shtml
http://www.motivemag.com/pub/feature...7S_Sedan.shtml
For the world's carmakers, the 3-series will probably remain the segment's benchmark for years to come, although in the marketplace the G37S should gain significant ground. If price were no factor, the 335i would certainly emerge as the best example of the breed based on its additional level of polish and poise. But for many, the nearly 30% difference in price will be worth a small sacrifice in refinement.
#3
01-09-2009, 12:27 PM
0-60 times:
335i - 5.4 sec
G37S - 5.0 sec
335i - 5.4 sec
G37S - 5.0 sec
BMW quashed that criticism for the 2007 model year by adding a twin-turbo variant that delivered 300 horsepower and 300 lb-ft of torque, endowing the newly christened 335i with the ability get to 60 in just 5.4 seconds.
The new VQ37VHR allows the G37S to bolt to 60 mph in just 5.0 seconds with its six-speed manual; that's a full 0.4 seconds quicker than the last G35 sedan we drove.
The new VQ37VHR allows the G37S to bolt to 60 mph in just 5.0 seconds with its six-speed manual; that's a full 0.4 seconds quicker than the last G35 sedan we drove.
#5
01-09-2009, 02:23 PM
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I liked that write-up. It was very objective and as zmzmzm said, "feature based". It seems most reviews these days focus more and more on the subjective "fun to drive" and "how it makes you feel" aspects. I think there's a place for those things in automotive journalism but they should not rule the day since the experiences are so varied from one person to the next.
5.0 vs. 5.4 0-60 runs for both cars equipped with a MT is heartening news but I've seen many other articles getting the 335 to 60 in 5.0 and the the G has previously been recorded as slower. I think in the end it's probably a wash and comes down to the conditions of the day and the specific car samples used in the test. On the street, I'm certain the two MTs in a head-to-head race are close enough that the winner would come down to the driver who hit his shifts better. If there is a straight-line performance edge in the match-up it goes to the 335 for cheap easy moddability. A few hundred bucks for a reflash that bumps the turbos up a couple of psi and then the game's over for the G. You could argue that is irrelevant and only stock numbers matter, but I believe that the only people who really truly care about 0.1-0.3 differences in 60 times are the very same people who are most likely to mod their cars.
5.0 vs. 5.4 0-60 runs for both cars equipped with a MT is heartening news but I've seen many other articles getting the 335 to 60 in 5.0 and the the G has previously been recorded as slower. I think in the end it's probably a wash and comes down to the conditions of the day and the specific car samples used in the test. On the street, I'm certain the two MTs in a head-to-head race are close enough that the winner would come down to the driver who hit his shifts better. If there is a straight-line performance edge in the match-up it goes to the 335 for cheap easy moddability. A few hundred bucks for a reflash that bumps the turbos up a couple of psi and then the game's over for the G. You could argue that is irrelevant and only stock numbers matter, but I believe that the only people who really truly care about 0.1-0.3 differences in 60 times are the very same people who are most likely to mod their cars.
#6
01-09-2009, 02:33 PM
Those are manufacturer estimates. The 335 has never tested that slow. Typically 4.7/4.8 to 60, 13.4-13.6 1/4 mile.
The G37 will be close - my guess is that it will be an insignificant tenth or 2 slower in the 1/4 mile. The G will have the upper hand in the 6000-redline range, while the 335 trumps it anywhere below that (significantly).
The G37 will be close - my guess is that it will be an insignificant tenth or 2 slower in the 1/4 mile. The G will have the upper hand in the 6000-redline range, while the 335 trumps it anywhere below that (significantly).
#7
01-09-2009, 02:37 PM
Those are manufacturer estimates. The 335 has never tested that slow. Typically 4.7/4.8 to 60, 13.4-13.6 1/4 mile.
The G37 will be close - my guess is that it will be a tenth or 2 slower in the 1/4 mile. The G will have the upper hand in the 6000-redline range, while the 335 trumps it anywhere below that (significantly).
The G37 will be close - my guess is that it will be a tenth or 2 slower in the 1/4 mile. The G will have the upper hand in the 6000-redline range, while the 335 trumps it anywhere below that (significantly).
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#8
01-09-2009, 02:41 PM
You boys need to remember that the posted figures are for 6MT's.
The 6AT 335 is FASTER than the 6MT 335 in a straight line, just how the 997 turbo AT is faster than the 997 turbo MT.
In at MT battle, the G has the distinct advantage of not having to wait for turbos to respool between shifts.
In at AT battle, the G has the advantage of additional gears (allowing for more agressive gearing). Keep in mind that the G also has a higher redline, and keeps pulling as it revs. This only further accentuates the advantage.
The 335 will continue to have superior lower end power and everyday useable power.
The 335 has a 30ft/lb advantage in torque, the G has a 28hp advantage, an additional gear, and a 500 rpm higher redline. The 335 also has the advantage of available reflashes, which can equal a quick 75 hp gain, something unavailable to the G's. Full bolt-ons and a tune will likely yield something in the 20-35 horsepower range, if past performance is an accurate indicator (who knows, I may be completely wrong here, and I certainly hope I am).
The 6AT 335 is FASTER than the 6MT 335 in a straight line, just how the 997 turbo AT is faster than the 997 turbo MT.
In at MT battle, the G has the distinct advantage of not having to wait for turbos to respool between shifts.
In at AT battle, the G has the advantage of additional gears (allowing for more agressive gearing). Keep in mind that the G also has a higher redline, and keeps pulling as it revs. This only further accentuates the advantage.
The 335 will continue to have superior lower end power and everyday useable power.
The 335 has a 30ft/lb advantage in torque, the G has a 28hp advantage, an additional gear, and a 500 rpm higher redline. The 335 also has the advantage of available reflashes, which can equal a quick 75 hp gain, something unavailable to the G's. Full bolt-ons and a tune will likely yield something in the 20-35 horsepower range, if past performance is an accurate indicator (who knows, I may be completely wrong here, and I certainly hope I am).
#9
01-09-2009, 02:45 PM
Yep, if you look at the power and gearing, it is clear that the G starts getting an advantage up high - but realistically, the power down in the more earthly velocities is pretty nice in the 335 (I have one as well).
#10
01-09-2009, 02:49 PM
You boys need to remember that the posted figures are for 6MT's.
The 6AT 335 is FASTER than the 6MT 335 in a straight line, just how the 997 turbo AT is faster than the 997 turbo MT.
In at MT battle, the G has the distinct advantage of not having to wait for turbos to respool between shifts.
In at AT battle, the G has the advantage of additional gears (allowing for more agressive gearing). Keep in mind that the G also has a higher redline, and keeps pulling as it revs. This only further accentuates the advantage.
The 335 will continue to have superior lower end power and everyday useable power.
The 335 has a 30ft/lb advantage in torque, the G has a 28hp advantage, an additional gear, and a 500 rpm higher redline. The 335 also has the advantage of available reflashes, which can equal a quick 75 hp gain, something unavailable to the G's. Full bolt-ons and a tune will likely yield something in the 20-35 horsepower range, if past performance is an accurate indicator (who knows, I may be completely wrong here, and I certainly hope I am).
The 6AT 335 is FASTER than the 6MT 335 in a straight line, just how the 997 turbo AT is faster than the 997 turbo MT.
In at MT battle, the G has the distinct advantage of not having to wait for turbos to respool between shifts.
In at AT battle, the G has the advantage of additional gears (allowing for more agressive gearing). Keep in mind that the G also has a higher redline, and keeps pulling as it revs. This only further accentuates the advantage.
The 335 will continue to have superior lower end power and everyday useable power.
The 335 has a 30ft/lb advantage in torque, the G has a 28hp advantage, an additional gear, and a 500 rpm higher redline. The 335 also has the advantage of available reflashes, which can equal a quick 75 hp gain, something unavailable to the G's. Full bolt-ons and a tune will likely yield something in the 20-35 horsepower range, if past performance is an accurate indicator (who knows, I may be completely wrong here, and I certainly hope I am).
The dynos show almost 50 lb-ft of advantage to the 335 at low rpms, with a BIG drop in torque after 6k rpm. The G37 7AT's gearing makes the low speed advantage (compared to the 335 6MT) less so.
#13
01-09-2009, 03:02 PM
#14
01-09-2009, 03:19 PM
Force to Ground would be foot-pounds, multiplied by gearing (1st gear, 2nd gear, etc., multiplied by final drive ratio, multiplied by the torque output at a given speed)
Minimal lag? Yes.
Is the spool up time still there? Yes.
Is it noticeable during drag racing? Yes.
Is it noticeable under daily driving conditions? No.
Enough testing has been done to show that the BMW AT and 6MT are almost equal. Turbo lag? Not in mine.
The dynos show almost 50 lb-ft of advantage to the 335 at low rpms, with a BIG drop in torque after 6k rpm. The G37 7AT's gearing makes the low speed advantage (compared to the 335 6MT) less so.
The dynos show almost 50 lb-ft of advantage to the 335 at low rpms, with a BIG drop in torque after 6k rpm. The G37 7AT's gearing makes the low speed advantage (compared to the 335 6MT) less so.
Is the spool up time still there? Yes.
Is it noticeable during drag racing? Yes.
Is it noticeable under daily driving conditions? No.
#15
01-09-2009, 04:04 PM
Mike is right. Basically, I start with dyno curves (engine torque), and then using each car's gearing, figure out how much torque the engine is making at all given speeds. I then used the tire size to translate that torque as a force to the ground (in lb-force).
It shows the significance of gearing on actual performance. Shorter gearing will give you more pull but the gears run out at a lower mph.
It shows the significance of gearing on actual performance. Shorter gearing will give you more pull but the gears run out at a lower mph.