no, there wouldn't be any gains, if not losses w/o cams. So pretty sure the market for people who wanna throw money away is pretty small

 

Don't think so everyone that has these with a DE has cams or plan on adding cams. If your Rev-up or HR you don't need cams.

 

So it's never been tested, yet you're confident there would be no gains or even losses? Solid gains have been shown on non-cammed DEs with quality shorty headers (Crawford, Tomei), so why would there not be any from a quality set of long-tubes? I would just feel more comfortable buying these if I knew that there was at least some R&D put into these headers that wasn't based solely around cars with cams. Crawford & Tomei shorty headers run $750-$900, so after you add in the cost of test pipes, the total cost is comparable to the PPE longtubes. If the gains are even just equal, I would strongly consider the PPEs over a shorty/tp combo.

 

no, not on Non-RevUp

 

SG tested their 2k+ longtubes on a non rev up G it only made 11hp. The same headers produced 30hp on a rev-up and cammed DE.

That is where SDGenius and myself is getting this info.

The other LTs Megan may show gains, but no one has done before and after with them.

My dyno was done same day which showed gains with cams, but with down low losses.

I'll provide links for you to look at later. I think you want to spend your money on something proven.

If your not going to cam your DE get shorty headers.

Tested on a non-cammed DE you will have gains put not the same if you had cams on a DE. Go to pg 13 on 1st link.

http://my350z.com/forum/na-builds/39...-roadster.html

http://tune2win.com/index.php/projec...5_power_adders

I'm sure the PPE's will show gains on a non-cammed DE similar to shortys/TP. I sent PPE my stock manifolds and cats to make these headers for the DE at the time they were only making them for the 370z.

Now revups and HRs can benefit from these headers it just a DE needs a little extra (cams) to get the same gains.

Here is my dyno comparing my momentum header/ART pipe combo to cams and longtubes.



dyno of momentum header/ART pipe cams vs cams and longtubes



dyno momentum headers/ART pipe vs momentum headers/ART pipe with cams.



My car ran 13.1 on the 250hp tune.

 

^Agreed. You can also add PRGDRIVER to the list of guys who have tested SGM with a stock block, but he has bigger plans down the road.

No doubt you'll get gains going to a LTH over stock+tp but it'll be marginal at best over shorties. As a note, the revup has way more aggressive cams compared to the DE. More lift, more duration on both sides and better overlap making it much more suited for the LTH. I'm not guessing either, i've gone thru DC , Tomei V2 , Rebello LTH, SGM LTH headers and three different set of cams including stock. The VQ35DE platform is old so a lot of things have been tried already. Utlimately its your money and decision, so do what makes the most sense for you.

 

gabe how is the SC coming along are you still overseas?

Do you have a dyno or pic of the rebello LTH's?

 

Yeah, still overseas. Well...things are moving along, but slowly as usual. Not sure if you saw my thread in the FI section but I have a few updates there. Dying when i was waiting for my NA engine and dying again waiting for this thing...i'm done dying after this project.

Here is a video where you can see the headers.


As you can prolly tell by the primaries flaring out so much, the headers was not meant to go in my chasis but was meant for testing purposes. They are stepped with larger primaries hence the reason for the topend improvement in the dyno below.

This is on the engine dyno, tuned with the motec m800 using a 88mm cable TB.


Cos = cosworth intake manifold
DB = modified stock upper plenum called double bubble

 

I guess it all depends on your perspective. For me, 10whp is significant gains. I'm restricted by strict class rules, so every pony I can reasonably extract from a NA, non-cammed DE is worth it. People often argue that it's "not worth it" due to the cost and difficulty of install, but there is no doubt that gains have been made. Sure, you get more out of simpler mods like plenum spacers and test pipes, but I'm already pretty well maxed out on simple bolt-ons. Like I said earlier, the price difference between a GOOD set of shorties + TPs compared to the PPE longtubes is basically nothing, so why not? It would just be nice to see that they have at least been tested on a DE with stock cams during the development process.

Thanks for this link, dsskyline - hadn't seen it before: http://tune2win.com/index.php/projec...5_power_adders
Notice how there was very little improvement in torque with all the other bolt-ons, but the headers appeared to add a solid 10-12ftlbs across the entire powerband.

 

^eh, you'll prob lose that much in heat soak from running aftermarket headers in the first place.

 

They didnt put any R&D due to not having a car there to test things. The R&D was done with their 370z headers.

They just going off what they did for the 370z.

I'm sure there will be gains it's just with the NR DE you need cams to get the full potential of the LTs.

It's like watching a HD TV using composite cables. Yeah the picture is better (gains over stock), but I need a HDMI cable (cams) to get the best possible out of it.

Basically they should show gains non cammed you just will not use them to their full potential.

There is a reason no one really makes longtubes for the NR DE similar gains to shorty headers.

 

^jarrod, here is almost the exact same test i did on my car (03 g35) from stock to DC headers, TP, motordyne y pipe.


As you can see almost a verbatim gain.

Here is the final outcome of my car after I tuned it, added the JWT popcharger+z+tube, 3/8th spacer (not in stalled on SGM).

 

Good stuff, I would have definitely try these out back when my car was modded. I would have paired them with cams though. Regardless there should be some gains with or without cams.

 

True the ? is how much I say similar to SG 8-12hp on a NR DE.

 

Dssyline, is PPE having a non-stepped header made for you? I decided to ask them if they'd done any more testing on a DE and they haven't. But I was told a non-stepped header was being made up for testing to see if it would make a difference on a DE. Even on the HR there is a slight dip at 3500rpm. I have a feeling aggressive cams will pair well with these headers.