4pot front and 4 pot rear okay?
#1
Join Date: Sep 2004
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#3
Originally Posted by Jeff92se
That question cannot be accurately answered w/o knowing the rotor sizes and piston sizes of each.
Assuming you are putting on the exact same 4 pots on each side, then the quick answer is no. Too much rear bias.
Assuming you are putting on the exact same 4 pots on each side, then the quick answer is no. Too much rear bias.
These cars have electronically controlled brake bias anyway, and the ABS pump should be able to adjust accordingly. If it's strictly for street use, I don't think it'd be a problem. For moderate track use, you can try the above method to re-shuffle the "bias" up front.
The rear brakes are woefully under-sized and under-padded anyway, even on Brembo equipped cars.
#4
Red Card Crew
iTrader: (24)
IMHO, you can only make MINOR differences in bias using diff pads.
Also IMHO, you want proper bias from the get go and not rely on heavy usage of the ABS systems to constantly bail you out.
The reason why you think the rears are underpowered is under hard braking, all the weight shifts up front where something like 70-80% of the braking force is needed.
Also IMHO, you want proper bias from the get go and not rely on heavy usage of the ABS systems to constantly bail you out.
The reason why you think the rears are underpowered is under hard braking, all the weight shifts up front where something like 70-80% of the braking force is needed.
Originally Posted by The HACK
You could technically shift the bias up front again by using more aggressive pads up front, like run a track pad in the front and street pad in the rear.
These cars have electronically controlled brake bias anyway, and the ABS pump should be able to adjust accordingly. If it's strictly for street use, I don't think it'd be a problem. For moderate track use, you can try the above method to re-shuffle the "bias" up front.
The rear brakes are woefully under-sized and under-padded anyway, even on Brembo equipped cars.
These cars have electronically controlled brake bias anyway, and the ABS pump should be able to adjust accordingly. If it's strictly for street use, I don't think it'd be a problem. For moderate track use, you can try the above method to re-shuffle the "bias" up front.
The rear brakes are woefully under-sized and under-padded anyway, even on Brembo equipped cars.
#5
Originally Posted by Jeff92se
IMHO, you can only make MINOR differences in bias using diff pads.
Also IMHO, you want proper bias from the get go and not rely on heavy usage of the ABS systems to constantly bail you out.
The reason why you think the rears are underpowered is under hard braking, all the weight shifts up front where something like 70-80% of the braking force is needed.
Also IMHO, you want proper bias from the get go and not rely on heavy usage of the ABS systems to constantly bail you out.
The reason why you think the rears are underpowered is under hard braking, all the weight shifts up front where something like 70-80% of the braking force is needed.
#6
Originally Posted by Jeff92se
The reason why you think the rears are underpowered is under hard braking, all the weight shifts up front where something like 70-80% of the braking force is needed.
The rear brakes on the 350z, and G35, were inadequate for moderate track use. Brembo or not.
#8
#9
Originally Posted by Jeff92se
I'm deferring to StopTech's reply.
None of the cars (BMW E86 MZ4 coupe, BMW E46 323Ci, BMW E30 318is, all bone stock brake systems) I tracked on the local tracks will burn through a set of rear OE pads in a single day's use. I ruined 2 sets of rotors when there's no pad material left after 4 20 minute sessions on the 350Z. And the lack of any usable braking in the rear resulted in rapid heat build-up and fade to the front pads. This chassis can actually use a little bit more rear bias if you ask me.
Not until I upgraded to a RacingBrake kit front and back, did I ever go through an entire weekend without experiencing fade, no matter what brake pad/fluid/rotor combination I tried on the 350Z. Faded at Vegas. Faded at California Speedway. Faded at Buttonwillow. I think the front brakes are asked to do way too much since the rears aren't doing ANYTHING.
#11
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Wouldn't that mean the rears are asked to do TOO much but don't have the capacity?
Originally Posted by The HACK
I would defer to StopTECH for most brake technical information too, but my personal experience on the 350Z (again, maybe the G35 is different...Who knows) is that this chassis is woefully under equipped for rear brakes.
None of the cars (BMW E86 MZ4 coupe, BMW E46 323Ci, BMW E30 318is, all bone stock brake systems) I tracked on the local tracks will burn through a set of rear OE pads in a single day's use. I ruined 2 sets of rotors when there's no pad material left after 4 20 minute sessions on the 350Z. And the lack of any usable braking in the rear resulted in rapid heat build-up and fade to the front pads. This chassis can actually use a little bit more rear bias if you ask me.
Not until I upgraded to a RacingBrake kit front and back, did I ever go through an entire weekend without experiencing fade, no matter what brake pad/fluid/rotor combination I tried on the 350Z. Faded at Vegas. Faded at California Speedway. Faded at Buttonwillow. I think the front brakes are asked to do way too much since the rears aren't doing ANYTHING.
None of the cars (BMW E86 MZ4 coupe, BMW E46 323Ci, BMW E30 318is, all bone stock brake systems) I tracked on the local tracks will burn through a set of rear OE pads in a single day's use. I ruined 2 sets of rotors when there's no pad material left after 4 20 minute sessions on the 350Z. And the lack of any usable braking in the rear resulted in rapid heat build-up and fade to the front pads. This chassis can actually use a little bit more rear bias if you ask me.
Not until I upgraded to a RacingBrake kit front and back, did I ever go through an entire weekend without experiencing fade, no matter what brake pad/fluid/rotor combination I tried on the 350Z. Faded at Vegas. Faded at California Speedway. Faded at Buttonwillow. I think the front brakes are asked to do way too much since the rears aren't doing ANYTHING.
#12
Originally Posted by Jeff92se
Wouldn't that mean the rears are asked to do TOO much but don't have the capacity?
When I mean shifting the bias rearward, I mean having larger sweep area in the rear to facilitate heat dissipation. I also have a feeling that since the rear pads aren't really doing ANYTHING important to slow the car down, the fronts get overwhelmed quickly when the rears stop working past MOT (max. op. temp).
Just my personal experience with the 350Z on the track, that's all. Obviously a good big brake kit will solve the problem, and I'm not advocating putting bigger brakes in the back than front to solve the problem. I think for street use, it's not a big deal to put 4pot fron and 4pot rear, and even for some moderate track work, you need, at the bare minimum, something bigger than what's currently back there anyway. And obviously you can just use a big kit up front to take away even more work from the rear to resolve the problem too.
I'm rambling. Sorry.
#13
Originally Posted by The HACK
Again, I'm not a brake specialist. From looking at the pads and the way the disintegrated, it looks like the sweep area on the rotor is too small to dissipate heat fast enough, heat builds up past the maximum operating temperature, the pads literally melt and disintegrate with each application.
When I mean shifting the bias rearward, I mean having larger sweep area in the rear to facilitate heat dissipation. I also have a feeling that since the rear pads aren't really doing ANYTHING important to slow the car down, the fronts get overwhelmed quickly when the rears stop working past MOT (max. op. temp).
Just my personal experience with the 350Z on the track, that's all. Obviously a good big brake kit will solve the problem, and I'm not advocating putting bigger brakes in the back than front to solve the problem. I think for street use, it's not a big deal to put 4pot fron and 4pot rear, and even for some moderate track work, you need, at the bare minimum, something bigger than what's currently back there anyway. And obviously you can just use a big kit up front to take away even more work from the rear to resolve the problem too.
I'm rambling. Sorry.
When I mean shifting the bias rearward, I mean having larger sweep area in the rear to facilitate heat dissipation. I also have a feeling that since the rear pads aren't really doing ANYTHING important to slow the car down, the fronts get overwhelmed quickly when the rears stop working past MOT (max. op. temp).
Just my personal experience with the 350Z on the track, that's all. Obviously a good big brake kit will solve the problem, and I'm not advocating putting bigger brakes in the back than front to solve the problem. I think for street use, it's not a big deal to put 4pot fron and 4pot rear, and even for some moderate track work, you need, at the bare minimum, something bigger than what's currently back there anyway. And obviously you can just use a big kit up front to take away even more work from the rear to resolve the problem too.
I'm rambling. Sorry.
Properly designed BBK's don't shift brake bias or add additional braking torque, they are meant to add heat capacity to the brakes through the use of larger pads and calipers for better dissipation, and along with larger rotors. Stoptech specifically designs their kits for the same amount of brake torque as the stock calipers(within a few percent), so their 4 pistion front or 6 piston front will have the same initial braking characteristics, with the only performance difference being heat capacity. So you and Jeff are arguing different points because you don't fully understand what you are trying to point out about the weaknesses in the stock system.
#14
#15
Red Card Crew
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Actually Hai, a properly designed BBK can increase the braking torque. Using more pistons (if area is increased) and bigger dia rotors do this. But the system must retain an acceptable front/rear brake bias or else brake performance might actually go down.
But you are right about BBKs adding fade resistance. It's one of many things BBKs add.
But you are right about BBKs adding fade resistance. It's one of many things BBKs add.