Sway Bar Summary!
#211
07-18-2006, 08:53 PM
crap, that top nut is stubbon as hell to remove on the rear endlinks.
im going to go buy the black bracket that the endlink mounts to.
i couldn't loosen that damn nut.
Anyone know the part number for the black metal brackets that the
end links mount to? Its the kinda-triangular piece that bolts onto the
chassis and attaches the endlink.
thanks.
im going to go buy the black bracket that the endlink mounts to.
i couldn't loosen that damn nut.
Anyone know the part number for the black metal brackets that the
end links mount to? Its the kinda-triangular piece that bolts onto the
chassis and attaches the endlink.
thanks.
#212
07-19-2006, 12:19 AM
#213
07-19-2006, 08:03 AM
#214
07-19-2006, 09:21 AM
Just got back from the dealer, placed an order. they wanted $28.50
or something each though. lol. i don't care i ordered both.
I put my originals back on my car last night but forgot to note the
orientation.
-> Which way was the upsidedown bracket's "L" positioned at? Does
anyone know?
1. I *think* the verticle part of the upsidedown "L" was towards the
outside of the car.
2. The nut to hold the endlink was towards the inside of the car.
My plan is to use locktite RED and just assemble the bracket and my
spare endlinks off the car and just swap them out when it's time.
or something each though. lol. i don't care i ordered both.
I put my originals back on my car last night but forgot to note the
orientation.
-> Which way was the upsidedown bracket's "L" positioned at? Does
anyone know?
1. I *think* the verticle part of the upsidedown "L" was towards the
outside of the car.
2. The nut to hold the endlink was towards the inside of the car.
My plan is to use locktite RED and just assemble the bracket and my
spare endlinks off the car and just swap them out when it's time.
#220
08-14-2006, 11:43 PM
Originally Posted by Q45tech
ate up the inside's of the front tires in a hurry as the front tires contact patches rolled over and played dead. The secret to this platform is to make the front tires do thier work across the contact patch.
Well of course they did, why I pointed out the front tires are the weak link with stiffer rear bars. The stiffer rear bar decreases the rear traction and the load stiffs forward [the body sway forces don't disappear they just get shifted] so you need STRONGER FRONT TIRES. You need front tires with a load index increase higher than the added rear roll stiffness.
Stiffening the front bar does the converse you need stronger rear tires.
If you stiffen the rear bar by 30% say the overall rear stiffness goes up by 7-10%..........you need a front tire that is 10-15% stiffer/stronger [at the same inflation psi] to maintain the slip angles.
Most times you can get by with just raising the front inflation pressure but 4-5 psi until you get to 45 psi but you must use a tire tread pyrometer to adjust the camber gain/static camber preload to equalize the tread contact patch temperature.
Well of course they did, why I pointed out the front tires are the weak link with stiffer rear bars. The stiffer rear bar decreases the rear traction and the load stiffs forward [the body sway forces don't disappear they just get shifted] so you need STRONGER FRONT TIRES. You need front tires with a load index increase higher than the added rear roll stiffness.
Stiffening the front bar does the converse you need stronger rear tires.
If you stiffen the rear bar by 30% say the overall rear stiffness goes up by 7-10%..........you need a front tire that is 10-15% stiffer/stronger [at the same inflation psi] to maintain the slip angles.
Most times you can get by with just raising the front inflation pressure but 4-5 psi until you get to 45 psi but you must use a tire tread pyrometer to adjust the camber gain/static camber preload to equalize the tread contact patch temperature.
Your idea seems interesting and logically has merit.
How do you suggest getting tires with higher load rating in the real world? Do I need to get larger sized tires then?
Take for example, the dumb 235/45/18 OEM sedan sport suspension size, I can only find XL rated tires that would have higher load ratings (which would also mean having to use higher inflation pressures to achieve the higher load rating).
What do you suggest without havinng to change wheel sizing?
Thanks
#221
08-14-2006, 11:49 PM
Originally Posted by Q45tech
Stiffer bar on front more understeer. Stiffer bar on rear less understeer until your goes rear neutral and too stiff goes to oversteer.
By stiffening the front YOU diminish the effect of the rear bar.
Taking the car as a whole WITH new adjustable front and rear bars, you actually have 10 or more adjustments to the roll stiffness RATIO.
Usually too much for non experts to test and optimize that why I say just add the rear bar and get that correct then play with a front bar IF YOU MUST.
The front tires are the most overload [static weight] plus turning load so the front tires wash out FIRST.........why a larger front bar is less than optimum.
With a stiffer than oem front bar you need STRONGER than oem front tires. Tires with a stiffer sidewall AND a higher than oem LOAD INDEX RATING.
A good rule of thumb is to half the load index increase........a 20% stiffer front bar needs TIRES that are 10% STIFFER and STRONGER to achieve the exact same slip angle for the bar increase in load shift. TRICKY depending on tire brand and size design..........but something to think about!
Why the oem front bar is too stiff to begin with to create a measure of understeer for oem safety and bad drivers.
By stiffening the front YOU diminish the effect of the rear bar.
Taking the car as a whole WITH new adjustable front and rear bars, you actually have 10 or more adjustments to the roll stiffness RATIO.
Usually too much for non experts to test and optimize that why I say just add the rear bar and get that correct then play with a front bar IF YOU MUST.
The front tires are the most overload [static weight] plus turning load so the front tires wash out FIRST.........why a larger front bar is less than optimum.
With a stiffer than oem front bar you need STRONGER than oem front tires. Tires with a stiffer sidewall AND a higher than oem LOAD INDEX RATING.
A good rule of thumb is to half the load index increase........a 20% stiffer front bar needs TIRES that are 10% STIFFER and STRONGER to achieve the exact same slip angle for the bar increase in load shift. TRICKY depending on tire brand and size design..........but something to think about!
Why the oem front bar is too stiff to begin with to create a measure of understeer for oem safety and bad drivers.
I forgot to subscribe to the previous post, so sorry if I am reposting.
Your idea seems interesting and logically has merit.
How do you suggest getting tires with higher load rating in the real world? Do I need to get larger sized tires then?
Take for example, the dumb 235/45/18 OEM sedan sport suspension size, I can only find XL rated tires that would have higher load ratings (which would also mean having to use higher inflation pressures to achieve the higher load rating).
What do you suggest without havinng to change wheel sizing?
Thanks
#222
08-17-2006, 03:51 PM
Per Q45Tech's recommendation, I am just gonna go with a stiffer rear bar. I want to get the 350EVO rear sway, but was not able to find it on the 350EVO (www.350evo.com) site. Does anyone know where their sway bars can be purchased?
#224
09-01-2006, 09:15 PM
Update on Progress-front is 33mm adjustable(3 positions), rear is 22mm adjustable 3 positions. Front bar has welded in collars.
Both front and rear come with bushings, rear one with new brackets as well.
Stickers included too!
They are heavier than stock or tubular, but if someone cares about weight-get on a diet-will get better results than switching to tubular bars. It's just silly to complain about extra weight and drive around on 19" wheels....
Rear didn't have enough clearance with Tanabe exhaust(wasn't banging or anything, just seemed to make contact), I don't know how will it work with stock exhaus. I had my exhaust "lowered" 0.5" and it's all fine now.
Performance wise-very satisfied, have them M/M, perfectly balanced.
Both front and rear come with bushings, rear one with new brackets as well.
Stickers included too!
They are heavier than stock or tubular, but if someone cares about weight-get on a diet-will get better results than switching to tubular bars. It's just silly to complain about extra weight and drive around on 19" wheels....
Rear didn't have enough clearance with Tanabe exhaust(wasn't banging or anything, just seemed to make contact), I don't know how will it work with stock exhaus. I had my exhaust "lowered" 0.5" and it's all fine now.
Performance wise-very satisfied, have them M/M, perfectly balanced.
#225
09-11-2006, 02:36 PM
