...That your sons are dead because they were stupid.

Great ***** of fire!


(What movie was that from?)


On another note it seems to me that all of the caution I was issued about taking my car to the shop I did (in Vic) once problems started to emerge has in fact put me in a pre"car"ious position. I BADLY wanted to believe that these guys were the schnitzel... and my initial impression (MY initial impression) was that they were.

On the surface everything looked pretty good- even to the new shop- but as the motor was being taken out to do the rebuild things started to emerge. Most of them are described in some detail in the FI thread about the build... but in short form include things that are severe enough to have contributed to the engine likely almost shaking itself apart while on the dyno. Wastegates unable to open and front motor mounts not secured being two very prominent issues- nevermind the costmetic stuff.

In the past I've made a point of measuring feedback from you guys to develop an objective course of action that would be best for everyone involved. I think that significant enough errors were made to actually hold the first shop somewhat accountable to some degree- but I don't want to be aggressive or "un-canadian" about it. I don't know how this sort of thing works? I don't want to get anyone fired over it... but I think they need to approach builds like this differently in the future if not outright refuse them. I don't want to smear campaign them either- but to be blunt about it I'm pretty angry and feel betrayed despite trying to put a rational tilt to it all.

Quite frankly a lot of the money going into the car from this point is upgrades the previous shop have nothing to do with. An increasing margin is going into cleanup costs as more things appear to have been done so haphazardly as to have influenced the use of the word "Jank" which up until last night I thought was a typo and not an adjective.

Gentlemen... If you were in my position right now, what would YOU do?

 

top gun

 

Oh man! Spoiled in the first post.

 

i would go to the 1st shop you took it to and a nice and stern manner and ask/demand they pay for the additianol costs you've paid to get running the way the 1st shop should have done it. I would not add the cost for upgrades on your part. show shop 1 what the 2nd shop has shown you in reagrds to mounts, wastegates, etc. I hope the 2nd shop/you took alot of pictures as they worked on your car.

how much time has passed since shop 1 finished work and shop 2 started?

 

I picked the car up on a wednesday and drove it carefully down to Seattle the Thursday. That Thursday night it cratered on the Dyno and the assumption was that some detonation detected on the "stock" (not so stock) plugs had degraded some engine parts that eventually failed under load. It wasn't until the new shop took the build apart that a bunch of things came clear.

There have been loads of photos taken throughout and I've been getting daily updates.

I know something needs to get done. Not sure how far to take it while maintainin my stance as a reasonable consumer. People I've talked to are dubious that the former shop will accept any of these costs- the drawback of introducing new shops into the equation.

Sigh. And so the drama continues.

 

I have been following this saga with some trepidation as I did recomend this shop (1st). I have heard good things about this shop and i know a few people with higher end performance cars that have work done there with no issues. Its sad that your experince has not been a good one. I agree that any good shop -should- take responsibility for for their part, Yelling doesnt work, but as stated in the other post a firm and meaning chat would be the order. The facts from the other shop dont lie. Good luck Eno and I hope this isnt the last time we chat....

 

3 words my friend, small claims court

 

Hate to be the pessimist, but I think that probably sums it up. Still, if you don't ask, you don't get. I agree with going to talk to them, pointing out their errors and asking them what they can do for you. Be ready with suggestions when they stand there mouth-breathing.

Something like "Here is the work that you did. Here is the work you did right, I will pay you for that. Here is what you did not do right and I don't feel I should pay for, so I would like you to refund me this amount. I know shops like yours operate on reputation and you'll do the right thing..."

At this point, silence is an effective negotiating tool. (People tell me it takes one to know one. I'm not sure what they mean by that...)

But very likely if you've paid, you're hooped. They'll deny and/or blame it on the second shop.

 

If I wasn't on a mobile device I would quote the post that said once you use more than one shop and issues arise the finger pointing begins. I am not sure the first shop can be blamed for much other than maybe the motor mounts. If the waste gate was jammed and over boosting the tuner should have noticed the boost spikes and.... the blame game is on. I am not sure what can really be blamed on the first shop if the kit came with the oil and coolant lines it is not really their fault for using the parts you supplied and shop B is going to blame as much of the mess on shop A to avoid taking blame them selves so I would take a lot of that with a grain of salt. Shops usually want to fix mistakes before they give you money back so I have a feeling your chances of winning tonights lotto max is better than having either shop admit fault or giving you a refund.

 

I'm reading it all guys. To gord; believe me the I told ya So's have been resounding. I don't even want to break the news to the guys on 350z because I think everyone who contributed told me to fire the first shop in the first week. Not sure that would have put me ahead in this situation but who knows.

Small claims court might be taking it further than I want- but it's reassuring to know that someone thinks it's that bad.

Swivel- leave it to you to drum up a civilized and responsible course of action. My biggest concern is that I know these guys meant well- in particular the tech who did it, who was newly certified. That new-ish-ness is a double edged sword. I'm not mad at him as much as I am the resident "expert" I thought would be overseeing the build. I don't know how much of a part he actually played in the build.

So- I take it to them, express my profound disappointment and then see what happens. If nothing at all then suffice to sAy the passive aggressive side of me will come out.

I admit that the car will be better off because of their mistakes- and I suppose that's why I'm standoffish on the issue.

Funny enough- cam from lsi was insistent throughout the end of the build that I limp the car to red deer and get them to look it over. He had a bad feeling about things judging by his conversations with the shop near the end. In the state it was in- I'm not sure it would have made it that far.

On the phone he practically begged me to bring it in because of his concerns. I dismissed them because of my belief in the shop.

And I'm just going to come right out and say it in the open to mxwizard: NONE of this is on you at all so don't even go there.

 

Ya I wanted to keep the I told you so's out but in this case i let one slip in I don't think you are going to get anywhere with the first shop,but maybe more upset. I hate to say it but bend over and take it. If you want you could go talk to them about it I have been there before they will say they did no wrong and the other shop is full of **** and then they will want to see all the things they supposedly did wrong. I feel you will end up more upset than you are now, I personally have rage issues so avoid this kind of situation maybe you can handle it better than me but don't expect money back if you just want to express your displeasure with them is the only real reason to go there.IMO

 

That's okay Gord... you're allowed 1 "I told you so" per thread so we're still within acceptable parameters.

I've sent the photos and a brief description of the issues I think they were directly responsible for as well as a disclaimer that whichever course they choose to take the car is going to be amazing.

I try to avoid these kinds of things as well by being open about my lack of car intellect and forcing those who know about cars to feel too sorry for me and my resident stupidity to be dishonest.

I'm not expecting them to jump on board and start throwing money at me... but it is a small community- You talked to Cam yet and let him know what happened?

 

Gord is right. The likelyhood the first shop will take any responsibility is zip. If you do confront them don't back them into a corner, or god willing nothing will end remotely well. I have seen multiple cases like this either pass through the shop I was at, or were a result of said shops work. Only a handful were ever sorted out, and a couple actually ended up at LSI. I think you know well enough how to handle people. If you do approach the first shop, do it with the utmost care. Act like Switzerland. Or Belgium. The problem is as Gord said its likely they'll call bull**** on any matter if they can't see it themselves. If they do take everything in stride and do offer you some sort of compensation, it'll blow my mind.

Now as per what I think you should do now; stick with what you think will be best for you in the long run, and the in term financially. I wouldn't go ape **** on the build, but then I wouldn't keep the VQ at all. Try to keep things as simple as possible, and eliminate any potential for problems; If that involves spending the dough on a pre built block as Sasha recommended, fine. But in the end that's your call.

 

why did you go all the way to Seattle, there are a handful of trusted capable shops here in Vancouver that could have helped you with your problems ...

sorry to hear about all this btw

 

The problems didn't arise until after the car went to Seattle to get tuned.