3rd party independant tear down results of a failed VQ motor.
I will say this in conclusion:
This whole ordeal got way out of hand, and the attention got diverted in several directions. As usual GTM skates blame on any quality control issues and failures. GTM has avoided to make good on several issues thus far with motors we have had, and never addressed once the fact we posted in the first post of this thread.
The summary: on our end is we will absorbe the cost of removing and reinstalling Romeys New motor at our facility for any potions that we feel we were liable for, and we will request that GTM makes needed repairs to their brand new engine that went in Romes car, and split the cost of our labor to do the removal and reinstall.
I do not expect GTM to make good for their end and will say that a 8-15% leakdown and loss of 35psi compression on a rebuilt motor is 100% normal. Or possibly find a way to blame us. This is what I fully expect.
Romey: will pay us our agreed upon labor for the initial install of the open dumps, test pipes,heat wrap,tuning time,ect. He will also pay us for the removal,and installation of the first motor to go bad including our teardown,shipping costs, injector inspection services at our agreed upon labor rate. (the rate is very low and we will not make a penny from it, only cover my mechanics hourly rate.) He will also pay us for any parts material utilized on the first removal and reinstall..
GTM: Will most likely divert all responsability and avoid taking any action to remedy the situation.
I will say that I have learned a valuable lesson in all of this.
1) Do NOT mix business and friendships.
I was fairly good friends with Romey, and he has been at my house, gone to Atlantic City bi-monthly with me, hang out till 3-4 in the AM at my shop. I have done alot for him, I even loaned him my Mazda Speed6 for a week when we were diagnosing his issue with the clutch he ordered from Clutchmasters last year. I will as a man of my word, honor fixing Romeys car for what I fell we are liable and responsible for, and we will turn the car over to him with a break in map, and no longer conduct business together. We will remain friends, just no more transactions with his car, as I feel he has not been 100% honest and upfront with us from day one.
2) Never outsource engines
There simply is not the quality control and liability control on things like this. To find a person to stand behind a mail order motor despite the chest pounding "were the best everyone else is amature" propaganda...I would rather do it 100% and if we F up we know we F'd up..
This whole ordeal got way out of hand, and the attention got diverted in several directions. As usual GTM skates blame on any quality control issues and failures. GTM has avoided to make good on several issues thus far with motors we have had, and never addressed once the fact we posted in the first post of this thread.
The summary: on our end is we will absorbe the cost of removing and reinstalling Romeys New motor at our facility for any potions that we feel we were liable for, and we will request that GTM makes needed repairs to their brand new engine that went in Romes car, and split the cost of our labor to do the removal and reinstall.
I do not expect GTM to make good for their end and will say that a 8-15% leakdown and loss of 35psi compression on a rebuilt motor is 100% normal. Or possibly find a way to blame us. This is what I fully expect.
Romey: will pay us our agreed upon labor for the initial install of the open dumps, test pipes,heat wrap,tuning time,ect. He will also pay us for the removal,and installation of the first motor to go bad including our teardown,shipping costs, injector inspection services at our agreed upon labor rate. (the rate is very low and we will not make a penny from it, only cover my mechanics hourly rate.) He will also pay us for any parts material utilized on the first removal and reinstall..
GTM: Will most likely divert all responsability and avoid taking any action to remedy the situation.
I will say that I have learned a valuable lesson in all of this.
1) Do NOT mix business and friendships.
I was fairly good friends with Romey, and he has been at my house, gone to Atlantic City bi-monthly with me, hang out till 3-4 in the AM at my shop. I have done alot for him, I even loaned him my Mazda Speed6 for a week when we were diagnosing his issue with the clutch he ordered from Clutchmasters last year. I will as a man of my word, honor fixing Romeys car for what I fell we are liable and responsible for, and we will turn the car over to him with a break in map, and no longer conduct business together. We will remain friends, just no more transactions with his car, as I feel he has not been 100% honest and upfront with us from day one.
2) Never outsource engines
There simply is not the quality control and liability control on things like this. To find a person to stand behind a mail order motor despite the chest pounding "were the best everyone else is amature" propaganda...I would rather do it 100% and if we F up we know we F'd up..
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Originally Posted by evslo
Hi many of you don't know me. My name is Tommy I'm an admin on the local NJ boards where julian is a member and r0mey is another admin.
I was one of the people there that night that Rome took possesion of the car. I am writing this as unbiased as possible and just stating my point of view of the events occuring that night.
We we arrived rome was not in a huge rush to pick up his car. Especially since we were coming from a house party that night to pick up the car. We were in no rush due to all the minor problems Rome was already iffy about picking up it up.
Julian already had the assumption that the heads were in fact lifting... and already expressed his concerns to rome. Matt tried to keep Rome calm and described other possibilites for why the car was overheating. But advised that Rome just drive the car how he would normally drive it.
Julian took the car for a test drive, and as we were leaving we clearly heard the dumps opening up from full boost. Julian was gone for a good 25 minutes and fully "tested" the car. He came back and mentioned how LOUD the dumps were when he hit it next to other cars and how they sound like gunshots. Julian also drove this car the way it was meant to be driven even with the possibility of head lift.
When he pulled back into the lot the coolant was boiling, and julian again expressed his concerns but told rome to just "drive it". Matt refilled the coolant and meth, and let us off on our way.
Rome definately drove the car hard that night but he did so under the assumption of the knowledge of his tuner.
Edit: oh yeah this is motor 1 not the one julian started this thread over blaming sam. The car moves as you see in the video. Too bad his "friend" lifted his head on the dyno then gave him his keys
I was one of the people there that night that Rome took possesion of the car. I am writing this as unbiased as possible and just stating my point of view of the events occuring that night.
We we arrived rome was not in a huge rush to pick up his car. Especially since we were coming from a house party that night to pick up the car. We were in no rush due to all the minor problems Rome was already iffy about picking up it up.
Julian already had the assumption that the heads were in fact lifting... and already expressed his concerns to rome. Matt tried to keep Rome calm and described other possibilites for why the car was overheating. But advised that Rome just drive the car how he would normally drive it.
Julian took the car for a test drive, and as we were leaving we clearly heard the dumps opening up from full boost. Julian was gone for a good 25 minutes and fully "tested" the car. He came back and mentioned how LOUD the dumps were when he hit it next to other cars and how they sound like gunshots. Julian also drove this car the way it was meant to be driven even with the possibility of head lift.
When he pulled back into the lot the coolant was boiling, and julian again expressed his concerns but told rome to just "drive it". Matt refilled the coolant and meth, and let us off on our way.
Rome definately drove the car hard that night but he did so under the assumption of the knowledge of his tuner.
Edit: oh yeah this is motor 1 not the one julian started this thread over blaming sam. The car moves as you see in the video. Too bad his "friend" lifted his head on the dyno then gave him his keys
Originally Posted by JAMEZ@CiNcity
Julian, why would you give a knowingly give a customer a car back that is not in proper running order, which motor 1 definitely was not? If Sharif gave me back my car KNOWING it had headlift, I'd be beyond pissed.
He is a grown man, no one held a gun to his head and made him street race a hurt car.
Last edited by Julian; Oct 29, 2008 at 07:20 PM.
Originally Posted by RudeG_v2.0
And furthermore... Why wasn't this fuel and/or spark issue diagnosed by MRC prior to starting this sh*tstorm on the forums???
The issue that will fail to prevail is GTM's motors..We know for a fact they inspected the heads, cause they installed their new cams in his heads when the motor was out there, they also sandblasted the intake and exhaust ports of the heads, I honestly HOPE they did not do this without dissasembling the heads. Had they dissasembled the heads, they would have rectified a leak down in the valve train at the time. Unless the heads were dissasembled at GTM and the valves mixed up and not put back in the correct positions on the heads.
Last edited by Julian; Oct 29, 2008 at 07:23 PM.
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Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 6
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so, anyone going to explain what this fuel and ignition issue was?
could the compression results not have happened due to the fuel or spark 'issue'? and if so, did the engine need to be removed?
and if the car already had headlift, why is Romey being charged for labor to remove the motor? that makes no sense. regardless if he drove it, the engine was already defective right and needed to be inspected/replaced? I don't understand this point of contention. what did GTM decide was wrong with engine #1?
could the compression results not have happened due to the fuel or spark 'issue'? and if so, did the engine need to be removed?
and if the car already had headlift, why is Romey being charged for labor to remove the motor? that makes no sense. regardless if he drove it, the engine was already defective right and needed to be inspected/replaced? I don't understand this point of contention. what did GTM decide was wrong with engine #1?
Originally Posted by evslo
Hi many of you don't know me. My name is Tommy I'm an admin on the local NJ boards where julian is a member and r0mey is another admin.
I was one of the people there that night that Rome took possesion of the car. I am writing this as unbiased as possible and just stating my point of view of the events occuring that night.
We we arrived rome was not in a huge rush to pick up his car. Especially since we were coming from a house party that night to pick up the car. We were in no rush due to all the minor problems Rome was already iffy about picking up it up.
Julian already had the assumption that the heads were in fact lifting... and already expressed his concerns to rome. Matt tried to keep Rome calm and described other possibilites for why the car was overheating. But advised that Rome just drive the car how he would normally drive it.
Julian took the car for a test drive, and as we were leaving we clearly heard the dumps opening up from full boost. Julian was gone for a good 25 minutes and fully "tested" the car. He came back and mentioned how LOUD the dumps were when he hit it next to other cars and how they sound like gunshots. Julian also drove this car the way it was meant to be driven even with the possibility of head lift.
When he pulled back into the lot the coolant was boiling, and julian again expressed his concerns but told rome to just "drive it". Matt refilled the coolant and meth, and let us off on our way.
Rome definately drove the car hard that night but he did so under the assumption of the knowledge of his tuner.
Edit: oh yeah this is motor 1 not the one julian started this thread over blaming sam. The car moves as you see in the video. Too bad his "friend" lifted his head on the dyno then gave him his keys
I was one of the people there that night that Rome took possesion of the car. I am writing this as unbiased as possible and just stating my point of view of the events occuring that night.
We we arrived rome was not in a huge rush to pick up his car. Especially since we were coming from a house party that night to pick up the car. We were in no rush due to all the minor problems Rome was already iffy about picking up it up.
Julian already had the assumption that the heads were in fact lifting... and already expressed his concerns to rome. Matt tried to keep Rome calm and described other possibilites for why the car was overheating. But advised that Rome just drive the car how he would normally drive it.
Julian took the car for a test drive, and as we were leaving we clearly heard the dumps opening up from full boost. Julian was gone for a good 25 minutes and fully "tested" the car. He came back and mentioned how LOUD the dumps were when he hit it next to other cars and how they sound like gunshots. Julian also drove this car the way it was meant to be driven even with the possibility of head lift.
When he pulled back into the lot the coolant was boiling, and julian again expressed his concerns but told rome to just "drive it". Matt refilled the coolant and meth, and let us off on our way.
Rome definately drove the car hard that night but he did so under the assumption of the knowledge of his tuner.
Edit: oh yeah this is motor 1 not the one julian started this thread over blaming sam. The car moves as you see in the video. Too bad his "friend" lifted his head on the dyno then gave him his keys
Originally Posted by motormouth
so, anyone going to explain what this fuel and ignition issue was?
Originally Posted by motormouth
could the compression results not have happened due to the fuel or spark 'issue'?
Originally Posted by motormouth
and if so, did the engine need to be removed?
Originally Posted by motormouth
and if the car already had headlift, why is Romey being charged for labor to remove the motor? that makes no sense. regardless if he drove it, the engine was already defective right and needed to be inspected/replaced? I don't understand this point of contention.
Originally Posted by motormouth
what did GTM decide was wrong with engine #1?
Originally Posted by motormouth
I thought you admitted that your method to check the TQ on headstuds was incorrect and useless? or are you just basing it because there were varying results?
Originally Posted by motormouth
thanks for the replies MRC!
the compression was checked before starting the new motor and so the 30psi drop on the one bank is isolated, I got it.
the compression was checked before starting the new motor and so the 30psi drop on the one bank is isolated, I got it.
Can you ask some questions of GTM who has yet to respond to anyhting in this thread...
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Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 6
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no, because... they don't answer questions :P
just a joke. I just don't have any questions that others haven't already asked, and subsequently been ignored by GTM.
the only one I have is what was the diagnosis on the problem of Romeys first motor.
(Hi Sean)
just a joke. I just don't have any questions that others haven't already asked, and subsequently been ignored by GTM.
the only one I have is what was the diagnosis on the problem of Romeys first motor.
(Hi Sean)
Last edited by motormouth; Oct 29, 2008 at 07:50 PM.