Going from M3 to G35
#32
09-08-2009, 06:34 PM
So you would suggest I go with 3.9's instead of 4.08's? I have read mixed reviews on gears with supercharger set ups. Some say it is detrimental and some say it helps.
The shop suggested that I let them install an upgraded clutch and flywheel on their own. If you know that the LTFW will hurt lowend tq and ability to launch I might as well tell them not to put the flywheel in and save some $ at the same time. It seems to me that this particular shop suggests this type of set up for all their FI installs (Upgraded clutch + LTFW).
The shop suggested that I let them install an upgraded clutch and flywheel on their own. If you know that the LTFW will hurt lowend tq and ability to launch I might as well tell them not to put the flywheel in and save some $ at the same time. It seems to me that this particular shop suggests this type of set up for all their FI installs (Upgraded clutch + LTFW).
If you were going with a turbo, then I'd say pass on the gears because a turbo has a far more robust HP and torque curve. The big wallop in low and midrange torque gained from a turbo serves as the torque multiplier therefore the additional gearing isn't needed. With a Vortech blower, the powerband is linear and rpm dependant. The higher the rpm, the higher the power therefore you want to get into the meat of the power band sooner, therefore you increase the gearing.
IMO, steer clear of lightened flywheels unless you're a road racer. The true point of a lightened flywheel is to improve downshift rev matching. It has nothing to do with improving "performance". Reducing weight from the flyhweel kills stored interia which can cause the car to be far more bog prone when coming off the line. One of this sites most avid drag racers (search Trey.Hutchenson) has the lightened flywheel and has noted slower 60 foots and a more bog prone VQ35 Revup. He's put the thing to the test, often, and I believe he regrets getting the flywheel. I'm uncertain as to why these shops are recommending the lightened flywheels with FI applications unless they think it improves spool time on a turbo. I guess it could help a little, but IMO it's not worth the noise, cost, or low rpm driveability issues. I'd just go with a stronger clutch unless the shop can make a valid argument as to why a lightened flywheel is needed.
#33
09-08-2009, 06:37 PM
From what I've read....
Boosting the VQ35 is like walking on eg shells. Luckily, the Revup VQ35 is slightly better suited to boost because of the stronger rod bolts, but remember it is still an NA motor with a light assembly designed to rev and not handle boost. The crank is stout, the lowend is stout. The issue is the rods. They're made to rev and are rather weak. For the most reliability, you should consider upgrading the rods and pistons.
For supporting mods, you've got a whole slew of things to choose from. Tuning can be accomplished by one of many systems available. For intake manifold stuff and exhaust, I'd stick with Motordyne (MD). Tony (the owner) is focused on legit numbers, driveability, and sound quality. You'll have numerous options to choose from. MD is also coming out high flow cats and Tony has told me they're nothing like we've seen before. I don't know what that exactly means, but he's sparked enough curiousity for me to suspend a HFC purchase until these are released. Since you want a Vortech blower, I'd upgrade the gears so that you can get into the boost a bit quicker. You'll probably need to upgrade the clutch as well as the stocker is pretty weak. If you want to keep the noise down to sane levels, consider going with the HR Y-pipe (search that term) and getting an 03/04 muffler can (smaller than the 05/06 can). You'll get a nice healthy sound, about 7whp/wtq, and no drone/rasp. A catback will be much louder and is only good for around 10-11whp.
A 05/06 sedan 6MT with a Vortech V3 5lb unit, tuning, 3.9 gears, MREV, some exhaust work, and 15" or 16" DRs should be good for 12.7-13.0@107-109mph.
Welcome to the site.
Boosting the VQ35 is like walking on eg shells. Luckily, the Revup VQ35 is slightly better suited to boost because of the stronger rod bolts, but remember it is still an NA motor with a light assembly designed to rev and not handle boost. The crank is stout, the lowend is stout. The issue is the rods. They're made to rev and are rather weak. For the most reliability, you should consider upgrading the rods and pistons.
For supporting mods, you've got a whole slew of things to choose from. Tuning can be accomplished by one of many systems available. For intake manifold stuff and exhaust, I'd stick with Motordyne (MD). Tony (the owner) is focused on legit numbers, driveability, and sound quality. You'll have numerous options to choose from. MD is also coming out high flow cats and Tony has told me they're nothing like we've seen before. I don't know what that exactly means, but he's sparked enough curiousity for me to suspend a HFC purchase until these are released. Since you want a Vortech blower, I'd upgrade the gears so that you can get into the boost a bit quicker. You'll probably need to upgrade the clutch as well as the stocker is pretty weak. If you want to keep the noise down to sane levels, consider going with the HR Y-pipe (search that term) and getting an 03/04 muffler can (smaller than the 05/06 can). You'll get a nice healthy sound, about 7whp/wtq, and no drone/rasp. A catback will be much louder and is only good for around 10-11whp.
A 05/06 sedan 6MT with a Vortech V3 5lb unit, tuning, 3.9 gears, MREV, some exhaust work, and 15" or 16" DRs should be good for 12.7-13.0@107-109mph.
Welcome to the site.
It'd not as huge of a difference as many believe. It's "feels" like a huge improvement, but when you look at it on paper, it's not going to make a big difference. Maybe .1 seconds in the 1/4 mile if you're good with the shifter. The gearing of the 6MT is already pretty deep and VQ35 revup doesn't rev nearly as high as the M3's I6 so it's not as dependant on the torque multiplication. With the Vortech, the extra gearing will definitely help though.
I'd steer clear of lightened flywheels because they'll make your tranny sound like a big rig at idle and in the lower rpms. A lightened flywheel will also wreck lowend torque and the car's launching ability.
I'd steer clear of lightened flywheels because they'll make your tranny sound like a big rig at idle and in the lower rpms. A lightened flywheel will also wreck lowend torque and the car's launching ability.
The gears may not make a .5 sec 1/4 difference but make the driveability drastically different.
#34
09-08-2009, 07:01 PM
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#35
09-08-2009, 08:05 PM
Have I ever gone FI? No, but again, I understand power curves and appropiate gear ratios. Do you? I'd venture to say.....no.
The gears may not make a .5 sec 1/4 difference but make the driveability drastically different.
#36
09-08-2009, 08:10 PM
I know you will definitly not have the silly problems the E46 Ms have, I have a 06 G coupe in auto I beat the hell out of it and no problems so far, the bmw gave me nothing but problems but damn i wish i could take the reliability of a G and put it onto the skin of the M I would keep the SMG though
#37
09-08-2009, 09:35 PM
Prove me wrong. Post up dynos. You do not need to own something to understand the gains, etc.
Have I ever gone FI? No, but again, I understand power curves and appropiate gear ratios. Do you? I'd venture to say.....no.
Again, prove me wrong. I've done the math and understand things like torque multiplication and ideal shift point calculations. Additionally, I have tested 3.55s are the strip with my 5AT. From a driveability standpoint, the additional torque multiplication will feel nice to the old butt dyno, but our cars don't come from the factory with poor gearing. This isn't a 96-98 Cobra with tall 3.27 gears which makes decent gains (.3 seconds) when going with 4.1-4.3 gear sets.
Have I ever gone FI? No, but again, I understand power curves and appropiate gear ratios. Do you? I'd venture to say.....no.
Again, prove me wrong. I've done the math and understand things like torque multiplication and ideal shift point calculations. Additionally, I have tested 3.55s are the strip with my 5AT. From a driveability standpoint, the additional torque multiplication will feel nice to the old butt dyno, but our cars don't come from the factory with poor gearing. This isn't a 96-98 Cobra with tall 3.27 gears which makes decent gains (.3 seconds) when going with 4.1-4.3 gear sets.
I used to have the HR y-pipe, cpe MP, and HKS muffler. I gained 10 WHP at PEAK with the Motordyne over this exhaust. The area under the curve was better than that.
#38
09-08-2009, 10:44 PM
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#39
09-08-2009, 11:39 PM
#40
09-08-2009, 11:44 PM
This is probably what I'd do too. The HR motors take very well to bolt-ons and this car could bridge the difference between a FI 1st gen and full bolt-on 1st gen. A couple well selected bolt-ons and a set of 26" slicks would put one of these cars in the low 13s.
#41
09-09-2009, 12:14 AM
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First off, let me just say that there is no need to argue. I respect everyone's opinion and take it into consideration but at the end of the day I still do my own homework and research.
I live closer to the bridge than the mall but you can come by see the car if you'd like. I have no problem giving you a ride either.
Yea I am keeping that option somewhat open. The only problems I have with the 2nd Gen are:
1. A bigger loan to finance ~24k vs ~16k
2. I can get a 1st gen and SC it for about the price of a stock 2nd gen. It will be noticeably faster and more fulfilling.
3. Down the road when the car is paid off, I feel like the resale value of the 2nd gen will drop significantly. Not to say the 1st gen won't but I won't take as big of a hit. Plus I might not be looking to get rid of a SC'ed G.
You didn't like your previous set up at all? I see quite a few members with that set up and they seem to like it. I guess I'll have to give the MD exhaust a good look and compare the 2. 10rwhp over the other set up is impressive, that means it would make a great deal of hp over stock. How does it sound, do you have a clip? If it's a low, deep sound it might be worth it for me.
Thanks for all the feedback guys, I appreciate it.
1. A bigger loan to finance ~24k vs ~16k
2. I can get a 1st gen and SC it for about the price of a stock 2nd gen. It will be noticeably faster and more fulfilling.
3. Down the road when the car is paid off, I feel like the resale value of the 2nd gen will drop significantly. Not to say the 1st gen won't but I won't take as big of a hit. Plus I might not be looking to get rid of a SC'ed G.
Thanks for all the feedback guys, I appreciate it.
#42
09-09-2009, 12:38 AM
#44
09-09-2009, 01:50 AM
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As much as I love my G... Don't buy a G35, go buy a Pontiac G8 GT, or at least go test drive one. A used 08 should be well within your budget, I've heard of people getting them new for ~$25K
Consider:
The G35 is a very reliable DD, until you go FI. The G8 is a very reliable DD, that doesn't need to go FI because it has 361HP.
The G8 is also a BEAST. The G35 is nice and nimble, but until you go FI, you're going to be taking a step backward in performance. You also have to consider how much you can really do to the G35 and keep your warranty.
G8s also have more room and ride just as good if not better, especially in the back seats.
Another point to the G8 is that it has an LS engine, so every mechanic is going to know it inside-and-out (the layout on my cousin's 08 is strikingly similar to the 2000 Trans-Am I had)
And if you do go mod happy, you'll get a lot more out of the G8.
It is more thirsty than the G35, but then again, if you go FI crazy and put a 4something rear diff in the G35, it's going to get more thirsty too!
G8 = Crazy V8 Growl, but the G35 can make some really good noise too.
I guess for you the biggest problem is that the G8 is that it's an automatic unless you get the GXP and then you're way out of budget, at least for the next couple of years anyway.
In the end, do what feels right for you. But you really should go test drive a G8 GT for fair comparison.
But if you do buy a G35...... do this: https://g35driver.com/forums/g35-sed...ddy-twins.html
Consider:
The G35 is a very reliable DD, until you go FI. The G8 is a very reliable DD, that doesn't need to go FI because it has 361HP.
The G8 is also a BEAST. The G35 is nice and nimble, but until you go FI, you're going to be taking a step backward in performance. You also have to consider how much you can really do to the G35 and keep your warranty.
G8s also have more room and ride just as good if not better, especially in the back seats.
Another point to the G8 is that it has an LS engine, so every mechanic is going to know it inside-and-out (the layout on my cousin's 08 is strikingly similar to the 2000 Trans-Am I had)
And if you do go mod happy, you'll get a lot more out of the G8.
It is more thirsty than the G35, but then again, if you go FI crazy and put a 4something rear diff in the G35, it's going to get more thirsty too!
G8 = Crazy V8 Growl, but the G35 can make some really good noise too.
I guess for you the biggest problem is that the G8 is that it's an automatic unless you get the GXP and then you're way out of budget, at least for the next couple of years anyway.
In the end, do what feels right for you. But you really should go test drive a G8 GT for fair comparison.
But if you do buy a G35...... do this: https://g35driver.com/forums/g35-sed...ddy-twins.html
#45
09-09-2009, 09:35 AM
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As much as I love my G... Don't buy a G35, go buy a Pontiac G8 GT, or at least go test drive one. A used 08 should be well within your budget, I've heard of people getting them new for ~$25K
Consider:
The G35 is a very reliable DD, until you go FI. The G8 is a very reliable DD, that doesn't need to go FI because it has 361HP.
The G8 is also a BEAST. The G35 is nice and nimble, but until you go FI, you're going to be taking a step backward in performance. You also have to consider how much you can really do to the G35 and keep your warranty.
G8s also have more room and ride just as good if not better, especially in the back seats.
Another point to the G8 is that it has an LS engine, so every mechanic is going to know it inside-and-out (the layout on my cousin's 08 is strikingly similar to the 2000 Trans-Am I had)
And if you do go mod happy, you'll get a lot more out of the G8.
It is more thirsty than the G35, but then again, if you go FI crazy and put a 4something rear diff in the G35, it's going to get more thirsty too!
G8 = Crazy V8 Growl, but the G35 can make some really good noise too.
I guess for you the biggest problem is that the G8 is that it's an automatic unless you get the GXP and then you're way out of budget, at least for the next couple of years anyway.
In the end, do what feels right for you. But you really should go test drive a G8 GT for fair comparison.
But if you do buy a G35...... do this: https://g35driver.com/forums/g35-sed...ddy-twins.html
Consider:
The G35 is a very reliable DD, until you go FI. The G8 is a very reliable DD, that doesn't need to go FI because it has 361HP.
The G8 is also a BEAST. The G35 is nice and nimble, but until you go FI, you're going to be taking a step backward in performance. You also have to consider how much you can really do to the G35 and keep your warranty.
G8s also have more room and ride just as good if not better, especially in the back seats.
Another point to the G8 is that it has an LS engine, so every mechanic is going to know it inside-and-out (the layout on my cousin's 08 is strikingly similar to the 2000 Trans-Am I had)
And if you do go mod happy, you'll get a lot more out of the G8.
It is more thirsty than the G35, but then again, if you go FI crazy and put a 4something rear diff in the G35, it's going to get more thirsty too!
G8 = Crazy V8 Growl, but the G35 can make some really good noise too.
I guess for you the biggest problem is that the G8 is that it's an automatic unless you get the GXP and then you're way out of budget, at least for the next couple of years anyway.
In the end, do what feels right for you. But you really should go test drive a G8 GT for fair comparison.
But if you do buy a G35...... do this: https://g35driver.com/forums/g35-sed...ddy-twins.html
1. They discontinued the whole Pontiac division completely. The G8 was the last pontiac ever made. That makes me uneasy of owning one looking at the long term (problems getting parts, dealer visits, warranty..etc)
2. The Gt's only come in auto as you mentioned. The GXP's come in stick but are alot more expensive.
3. I am not sold on the reliability, I had a G6 GTP 6mt prior to the M3 and even though there weren't major issues, there was constantly something that needed to be looked at.
4. The performance is there but you basically have the same power as the C55 AMG in a heavier, less refined body, with less comfort features and luxury and worse performance. Only thing is it might be less expensive to maintain/fix(while parts are still available).
I might consider leasing a G8 though. That way when the lease is up I don't have to worry about anything. But I calculated the numbers and leasing ends up costing you more than financing and you are just giving money away every month with nothing in return when your lease is up. Also, you can't really mod the way you want to when you're leasing. I leased the G6 and it was a PITA removing all the mods at the end.
I will give some more serious thought and research into the 2nd Gen G35, 335 and G8 though.