New intake choice
#61
09-16-2008 | 10:45 PM
G35/350Z drivers butt-dyno has failed many times.
I wish PFE/R2C Performance can provide a dyno sheet comparison between stock intake and their system or filter to back up their word of "Being the Best" at very least.
I understand that the company had done or gone through bunch of lab tests and R&Ds on their products. As a consumer, I like to see one on my end as well.
T
I understand that the company had done or gone through bunch of lab tests and R&Ds on their products. As a consumer, I like to see one on my end as well.
T
#63
09-17-2008 | 12:11 AM
Here we go...
PFE, please let me know if you want me to remove it.
Originally Posted by PFE
Hello JSpec350GT
I understand your desire to see dyno results as a basis for comparison against other products. While these can be subjective and vary a great deal from car to car, the SAE J726 ISO 5011 tests are identical anywhere they are performed. The protocol for this test remains consistent in every case. SCFM is used rather than simply CFM for air intake volume.
All any manufacturer can do is to evaluate each specific application, determine what issues exist in terms of differential pressure and work in a design and engineering capacity to eliminate any restriction possible within an intake tract.
The first issue here is the shape of the tube itself. Round tubes do not maximize air flow. They are relied upon only because they are inexpensive to work with. Think about the last time you saw an intake that wasn't round. Companies simply purchase commercial tubing and have it bent to fit within the confines of the engine compartment. The vast majority of intake companies have no capacity to actually engineer the air flow within a system. Nor can they actually build the filter in most cases. They rely on commercial filter manufacturers and their selection is based on cost primarily.
The R2C tube was specifically designed with the intention of examining each area of transition and facet. Flow was monitored from filter inlet to throttle body. Like an F-117, each shape and panel is designed for a purpose. The result was a tube that, by itself, eliminated over 60% of the restriction when compared to existing performance products.
The next step is the filter. It too was designed to maximize on the space allocated within the engine compartment. Most new filters are pretty close in terms of restriction. A dramatic change occurs when they begin to collect dust. The synthetics such as AEM, Amsoil, etc. develop significant restriction very early in the loading process. the gauze hangs on for a liitle while longer before it takes off. Worse is that the gauze is allowing multiples of engine damaging particulate to enter and beat upon your engine while it's becoming restrictive. There just isn't any place to hold the dust in this configuration.
The R2C features HLVV fiber technology which utilizes many voids and small fibers throughout this patented, high loft media. This new technology can hold a great deal of dust and still provide many voids that allow air to pass.
So now we have a dramatic decrease in flow restriction beginning with the filter and continuing through the tube and into the throttle body. All of this in a system that requires no oil or cleaners and will last as long as you own the car. To clean, simply and thoroughly apply low pressure, compressed air from the inside and the performance is completely restored.
I understand your desire to see dyno results as a basis for comparison against other products. While these can be subjective and vary a great deal from car to car, the SAE J726 ISO 5011 tests are identical anywhere they are performed. The protocol for this test remains consistent in every case. SCFM is used rather than simply CFM for air intake volume.
All any manufacturer can do is to evaluate each specific application, determine what issues exist in terms of differential pressure and work in a design and engineering capacity to eliminate any restriction possible within an intake tract.
The first issue here is the shape of the tube itself. Round tubes do not maximize air flow. They are relied upon only because they are inexpensive to work with. Think about the last time you saw an intake that wasn't round. Companies simply purchase commercial tubing and have it bent to fit within the confines of the engine compartment. The vast majority of intake companies have no capacity to actually engineer the air flow within a system. Nor can they actually build the filter in most cases. They rely on commercial filter manufacturers and their selection is based on cost primarily.
The R2C tube was specifically designed with the intention of examining each area of transition and facet. Flow was monitored from filter inlet to throttle body. Like an F-117, each shape and panel is designed for a purpose. The result was a tube that, by itself, eliminated over 60% of the restriction when compared to existing performance products.
The next step is the filter. It too was designed to maximize on the space allocated within the engine compartment. Most new filters are pretty close in terms of restriction. A dramatic change occurs when they begin to collect dust. The synthetics such as AEM, Amsoil, etc. develop significant restriction very early in the loading process. the gauze hangs on for a liitle while longer before it takes off. Worse is that the gauze is allowing multiples of engine damaging particulate to enter and beat upon your engine while it's becoming restrictive. There just isn't any place to hold the dust in this configuration.
The R2C features HLVV fiber technology which utilizes many voids and small fibers throughout this patented, high loft media. This new technology can hold a great deal of dust and still provide many voids that allow air to pass.
So now we have a dramatic decrease in flow restriction beginning with the filter and continuing through the tube and into the throttle body. All of this in a system that requires no oil or cleaners and will last as long as you own the car. To clean, simply and thoroughly apply low pressure, compressed air from the inside and the performance is completely restored.
#64
09-17-2008 | 12:23 AM
PFE we al understand what u are saying in the above statement. You have been saying it through out the entire thread. You just keep saying the same thing different ways. we understand that dynos vary from car to car and if you can't provide a dyno sheet that's fine, just say so. But it's nice to see something as far as a dyno goes.
#66
09-17-2008 | 12:35 AM
Registered User
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 23
Likes: 0
R2c
ShanesG,
For the purposes of this thread, let's assume that any additional volume of quality air this system can provide is not consumed by your G35 based on it's current limitations and the dyno numbers are exactly the same as the best producing system available.
Don't you feel that all of the other benefits of this system are an advantage over what currently exists? Is unmatched engine protection while providing the best flow numbers not important? As in our race only applications, if it was just maximum dyno numbers, we could have built a system in a few weeks. Please consider every aspect of the system and filter and make a decision that's in your best overall interest.
Sincerely,
PFE
For the purposes of this thread, let's assume that any additional volume of quality air this system can provide is not consumed by your G35 based on it's current limitations and the dyno numbers are exactly the same as the best producing system available.
Don't you feel that all of the other benefits of this system are an advantage over what currently exists? Is unmatched engine protection while providing the best flow numbers not important? As in our race only applications, if it was just maximum dyno numbers, we could have built a system in a few weeks. Please consider every aspect of the system and filter and make a decision that's in your best overall interest.
Sincerely,
PFE
Last edited by PFE; 09-17-2008 at 10:07 AM. Reason: spelling
#67
09-17-2008 | 04:37 PM
I'm primarily interested in the filter itself... If it’s good flowing, good filtering an easily cleaned - that’s all I'm looking for as a replacement/continual swap out with my Stillen...
I really don’t care about he rest of the intake - I don’t suspect it will be mind blowing gains over what I run already - and compared to the rest of the setup I have its actually meaningless... it would be 1% of what is making my car perform well (just about every other mod I have is more significant).
So... I understand you guys that are asking for dynos... but I don’t think the manufacturer is claiming it will blow you away by how much gain it will give... I'm getting the filter for sure - someone that doesn’t already have complete intake should step up and give this one a shot... Independent dynos are much more revealing than manufactures’ test dynos anyway…
Have you noticed that Tony @ Motordyne has chosen not to post his own dyno’s… he know ppl will throw the BS flag if he posts big gains… so he’s letting other people do it. I’m not suggesting that this intake would be so good that ppl wouldn’t believe it – but think about it, if they posted their own dynos and it should 7-10hp gain, don’t you realize how many ppl would say BS???
Its not worth going on and on about in this thread… I’ll say this, if I didn’t already have what I do, I’d probably consider trying the entire intake – it is a bit pricey, but looks kinda cool and who knows, maybe it is worthwhile.
Just my .02
I really don’t care about he rest of the intake - I don’t suspect it will be mind blowing gains over what I run already - and compared to the rest of the setup I have its actually meaningless... it would be 1% of what is making my car perform well (just about every other mod I have is more significant).
So... I understand you guys that are asking for dynos... but I don’t think the manufacturer is claiming it will blow you away by how much gain it will give... I'm getting the filter for sure - someone that doesn’t already have complete intake should step up and give this one a shot... Independent dynos are much more revealing than manufactures’ test dynos anyway…
Have you noticed that Tony @ Motordyne has chosen not to post his own dyno’s… he know ppl will throw the BS flag if he posts big gains… so he’s letting other people do it. I’m not suggesting that this intake would be so good that ppl wouldn’t believe it – but think about it, if they posted their own dynos and it should 7-10hp gain, don’t you realize how many ppl would say BS???
Its not worth going on and on about in this thread… I’ll say this, if I didn’t already have what I do, I’d probably consider trying the entire intake – it is a bit pricey, but looks kinda cool and who knows, maybe it is worthwhile.
Just my .02
#69
09-17-2008 | 05:09 PM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 13,068
Likes: 101
From: Southern Cali --> 818
#70
09-17-2008 | 07:28 PM
Originally Posted by Skaterbasist
What we need is an aftermarket intake which significantly reduces heat soak.
Most aftermarket intakes don't have an issue with flow (and its never really been an issue even with the stock intake).
.
Most aftermarket intakes don't have an issue with flow (and its never really been an issue even with the stock intake).
.
Seems to work for me 
I'd like to Lizard Skin my heat shield and MAF sensor housing but no one in So Cal uses the stuff anymore - except for some place in SD and they change ridiculous... A bunch of Hot Rod shops in the south use it though...
#72
09-17-2008 | 08:07 PM
Registered User
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 23
Likes: 0
R2C temp
We evaluated 350Z/G35 and G37 underhood temps and the effect on air charge/internal tube temperatures. I may post these readings soon. The tube design was created with this in mind. The material chosen was the best insulator in terms of shielding the intake charge from ambient heat. It works very well in this regard. It's certainly much better than the steel tubing normally associated with these designs.
#73
09-17-2008 | 08:39 PM
#74
09-17-2008 | 08:41 PM
Originally Posted by PFE
We evaluated 350Z/G35 and G37 underhood temps and the effect on air charge/internal tube temperatures. I may post these readings soon. The tube design was created with this in mind. The material chosen was the best insulator in terms of shielding the intake charge from ambient heat. It works very well in this regard. It's certainly much better than the steel tubing normally associated with these designs.
Just a point of reference - that the majority (of people on htis forum) dont use metal intake tubes (some do though).
