Who wants to tune an E-Ultimate?
#1
01-11-2009, 11:38 PM
Who wants to tune an E-Ultimate?
Over the last year I have been learning how to tune the E-Ultimate on my G Sedan. I do this because tuners in BC a hard to find - good tuners - impossible. This site is great for getting information, but I haven't seen any real detail about how to tune our cars with the various management units out there. So, I thought I would share my experience to show people they can do it themselves if they have to - it's not that hard.
The E-Ultimate is excellent for mapping and reporting, but you really need to make sure you hook up a wideband sensor to the option port. If you don't do that, stop reading because you can't tune it. I used an Innovate LC1 and a Greddy pressure sensor. You can get them both for less than a tuning run on a dyno.
OK, so once you have everything installed, you need to create a couple of base maps. You only have to mess with 2 maps. Injector and ignition. The map below is my current injector adjustment map. The X axis (across) is the RPM range covered by the cell and the Y axis is the Airflow which increases with load as you go down.
If you start with a blank map, you will want to make sure that you initialize the bottom cells with a high number. This will ensure you provide enough fuel so you don't run lean. Now, before you jump on the gas and try for full power, you're going to have to spend some time working up to it. The sampling map (shown below) will display the current A/F that relates to each cell as you drive. (you have to turn it on though). This is a good start, but you have to be careful because it will display the last A/F for that cell even as you decelerate. Cells will go rich just after you let off the gas.
When there is no load on the car your A/F should be 14.7 that is your target for cells where the Airflow hot wire is 2.00. At max load you should be shooting for 11.2 to 11.4 (where airflow h/w is 5.00). The sampling map is no where near as accurate as the real-time graph. The only thing you are missing from a dyno here is the measurement of power, but if you have the fuel right, the power will follow.
So, lets get into the graphing (note this is an old graph - I needed one that had a pretty short run so I could show what I needed in a smaller image. My later graph keep A/F below 14.7 for all loads)...
The graph shows a run to just over 5.2 k rpm. The graph allows you to display much more data than I am showing here, but this is all you need for the injector adjustment. The software allows you to pick the range and color for each line.
Now the cool stuff... When you click on a point on the graph, the corresponding cell in the open adjustment maps are highlighted in red (see injector map above - red cell). You can go for a drive with your notebook in the car and record your entire ride. Look at the sampling map from time to time to ensure you have data is as much of the table as possible. Don't try to get to the bottom of the map on the first ride. Increase your RPM and load with each run so you can make adjustments in small increments. Only go to higher RPM and load when you have a fairly accurate map for the last run and you have updated the E-Ultimate. It works great if you drive and have someone else tell you how the sampling chart is looking.
Things to watch for
- Don't try to adjust the map for cells just after you release the throttle. Cells will go rich for a second - don't worry about that.
- If you release the throttle completely and let the car decelerate, the A/F will go very lean. Again, don't make any adjustments there. Only adjust for constant throttle and increasing throttle.
The other map you need to adjust is the ignition adjustment map. You really should have a pressure sensor to be able to set this properly. I have a Greddy pressure sensor connected to my E-Ultimate on the second option port. I have targeted -11 degree adjustment for max boost (9 lbs) and 0 for no boost and start at -3 for 1 pound and work your way down to -11 as you work up to max boost. Here is what my ignition map looks like:
Doing the above tuning will allow you to get very close to a perfect tune without risking your engine. Once your tune is right, you can always take it to the dyno for a final test. I am working up a bunch of different maps for various times of year. Since I can load my own, it just takes a second to switch if the temperature changes significantly.
After you have adjusted your maps, you simply export the maps to the E-Ultimate.
I hope this helps somebody...
The E-Ultimate is excellent for mapping and reporting, but you really need to make sure you hook up a wideband sensor to the option port. If you don't do that, stop reading because you can't tune it. I used an Innovate LC1 and a Greddy pressure sensor. You can get them both for less than a tuning run on a dyno.
OK, so once you have everything installed, you need to create a couple of base maps. You only have to mess with 2 maps. Injector and ignition. The map below is my current injector adjustment map. The X axis (across) is the RPM range covered by the cell and the Y axis is the Airflow which increases with load as you go down.
If you start with a blank map, you will want to make sure that you initialize the bottom cells with a high number. This will ensure you provide enough fuel so you don't run lean. Now, before you jump on the gas and try for full power, you're going to have to spend some time working up to it. The sampling map (shown below) will display the current A/F that relates to each cell as you drive. (you have to turn it on though). This is a good start, but you have to be careful because it will display the last A/F for that cell even as you decelerate. Cells will go rich just after you let off the gas.
When there is no load on the car your A/F should be 14.7 that is your target for cells where the Airflow hot wire is 2.00. At max load you should be shooting for 11.2 to 11.4 (where airflow h/w is 5.00). The sampling map is no where near as accurate as the real-time graph. The only thing you are missing from a dyno here is the measurement of power, but if you have the fuel right, the power will follow.
So, lets get into the graphing (note this is an old graph - I needed one that had a pretty short run so I could show what I needed in a smaller image. My later graph keep A/F below 14.7 for all loads)...
The graph shows a run to just over 5.2 k rpm. The graph allows you to display much more data than I am showing here, but this is all you need for the injector adjustment. The software allows you to pick the range and color for each line.
Now the cool stuff... When you click on a point on the graph, the corresponding cell in the open adjustment maps are highlighted in red (see injector map above - red cell). You can go for a drive with your notebook in the car and record your entire ride. Look at the sampling map from time to time to ensure you have data is as much of the table as possible. Don't try to get to the bottom of the map on the first ride. Increase your RPM and load with each run so you can make adjustments in small increments. Only go to higher RPM and load when you have a fairly accurate map for the last run and you have updated the E-Ultimate. It works great if you drive and have someone else tell you how the sampling chart is looking.
Things to watch for
- Don't try to adjust the map for cells just after you release the throttle. Cells will go rich for a second - don't worry about that.
- If you release the throttle completely and let the car decelerate, the A/F will go very lean. Again, don't make any adjustments there. Only adjust for constant throttle and increasing throttle.
The other map you need to adjust is the ignition adjustment map. You really should have a pressure sensor to be able to set this properly. I have a Greddy pressure sensor connected to my E-Ultimate on the second option port. I have targeted -11 degree adjustment for max boost (9 lbs) and 0 for no boost and start at -3 for 1 pound and work your way down to -11 as you work up to max boost. Here is what my ignition map looks like:
Doing the above tuning will allow you to get very close to a perfect tune without risking your engine. Once your tune is right, you can always take it to the dyno for a final test. I am working up a bunch of different maps for various times of year. Since I can load my own, it just takes a second to switch if the temperature changes significantly.
After you have adjusted your maps, you simply export the maps to the E-Ultimate.
I hope this helps somebody...
#2
01-29-2009, 03:05 PM
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I see you are using a Map sensor so I'm curious how do you set your Load mapping? I see it base on V and not by pressure so how do you know what volt is 1psi? In Utec you set the set the Min/Max value for mapping in PSI so you know every load is by PSI. I thought Ultimate has more resolution than that..
Last edited by FI'ed G; 01-29-2009 at 03:14 PM.
#3
02-08-2009, 01:27 PM
I tried using the map sensor when I first got it, but I found the readings to be bouncing all over the place (not a smooth curve at all). I was thinking there was a problem with the sensor so I didn't want to risk using it as the basis for my tune. I can see boost pressure on the graphs, but I'm not using it to control the ECU. With the E-Ultimate, I have the choice of tuning with Air Flow Hot Wire, Pressure or Charge Efficiency. Either choice gives you the exact same number of possible adjustments. I am finding pretty good results using the Air Flow for the injector adjustments.
#6
02-19-2009, 08:41 PM
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Wow..my MAF is maxed out at 7psi and 5000rpm or sometimes sooner depend on the gear..
Here is a sample of my log when I was tuning my car.. This is a 3rd gear pull and my boost set for only 7psi..
Here is a sample of my log when I was tuning my car.. This is a 3rd gear pull and my boost set for only 7psi..
Code:
[TSMP][RPM][PSIG][MAF][TPS][LOD][KN][SIG][IDC%][IGN][VOEF][BMV][MMV][WBO2][AIT][CLT]
000.00 3100 +0.2 3.6 95 10 0 20.1 27.5 21.3 +6.0 000 3.5 12.09 007 081
000.20 3193 +0.8 3.8 95 10 0 23.2 28.3 21.0 +6.0 000 3.4 12.22 008 081
000.40 3314 +1.4 3.7 94 20 0 23.1 31.3 20.7 +6.0 000 3.5 12.34 007 081
000.60 3419 +2.0 3.8 95 20 0 22.1 35.4 19.9 +6.0 000 3.7 12.22 008 083
000.80 3496 +2.9 4.0 92 30 0 23.1 38.8 19.5 +6.0 000 3.8 11.93 008 081
001.00 3588 +3.8 4.0 92 40 0 23.1 42.9 19.0 +6.0 000 3.9 11.66 009 081
001.20 3729 +4.7 4.1 91 50 0 22.1 45.8 19.0 +3.0 000 4.1 11.56 008 081
001.40 3867 +5.7 4.3 93 60 0 23.1 51.4 18.3 +3.0 000 4.1 11.62 010 081
001.60 3998 +6.4 4.4 89 70 0 20.0 58.4 15.3 +3.0 000 4.2 11.62 008 081
001.80 4134 +6.9 4.6 91 70 0 20.9 63.6 13.9 +3.0 000 4.1 11.55 010 081
002.00 4383 +6.8 4.8 87 70 0 21.9 71.5 14.0 +3.0 000 4.6 11.62 010 081
002.20 4523 +7.1 4.8 85 70 0 22.0 69.7 13.9 +3.0 000 4.3 11.76 011 081
002.40 4606 +7.0 4.8 83 70 0 21.0 72.1 14.0 +3.0 000 4.6 11.81 010 081
002.60 4730 +6.9 4.9 83 70 0 19.1 75.2 14.2 +3.0 000 4.6 11.72 011 081
002.80 4862 +6.8 4.9 83 70 0 19.0 78.4 14.7 +3.0 000 4.6 11.57 011 081
003.00 4998 +6.8 4.9 84 70 0 19.1 80.8 15.4 +3.0 000 4.6 11.53 013 081
003.21 5155 +6.8 4.9 83 70 0 18.0 82.9 15.9 +3.0 000 4.6 11.53 013 081
003.41 5302 +6.7 5.0 84 70 0 18.9 84.6 16.1 +3.0 000 4.6 11.53 013 081
003.61 5435 +6.9 5.0 85 70 0 18.7 85.8 16.2 +3.0 000 4.6 11.58 014 081
003.80 5569 +6.8 5.0 85 70 0 19.0 86.2 16.6 +3.0 000 4.6 11.65 015 081
004.01 5693 +6.8 5.0 85 70 0 19.3 87.4 17.0 +3.0 000 4.6 11.65 015 081
004.21 5821 +6.8 5.0 87 70 0 20.8 88.3 17.1 +3.0 000 4.6 11.62 015 081
004.40 5978 +7.0 5.0 88 70 0 20.9 89.9 17.0 +3.0 000 4.6 11.58 016 081
004.61 6149 +7.0 5.0 91 70 0 21.7 90.9 17.3 +3.0 000 4.6 11.49 016 081
004.80 6258 +6.7 5.0 89 70 0 21.7 90.7 16.5 +3.0 000 4.6 11.46 016 081
005.01 6359 +7.1 5.0 88 70 0 21.5 92.1 16.2 +3.0 000 4.6 11.51 017 081
005.20 6454 +6.8 5.0 86 70 0 21.8 92.4 16.4 +3.0 000 4.6 11.53 018 081
005.40 6557 +6.9 5.0 63 10 0 21.6 93.5 19.0 +3.0 000 2.8 11.63 019 081
Last edited by FI'ed G; 02-19-2009 at 08:57 PM.
#7
02-24-2009, 11:34 AM
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#8
02-24-2009, 06:21 PM
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I'm not worried about the injector, well if my MAF voltage is pegged at 5 already at 5000rpm and 7psi then how can it calculate how much fuel to add past that? Oh, well if it work for you then good for you but the stock MAF definitely wont work for me.
I do watch my IDC and I have been running 90%-93% IDC at redline for a while, I also watch my AIT coz below freezing my Inj is maxed out at 6psi so I just lower my boost(that is why my first log only go to 7psi.. compare the AIT column between 2 logs
). I know I'm pushing it but I dont spend a lot of time up there(redline) so 90%-93% is ok as long as I dont spend a lot of time up there. Here are part of my logs at 8psi-9psi and my MAF is just pegged at 5V even befor it get there, good thing I'm running speed density so I'm using a Map sensor else I'll be ****ed using the stock MAF. I have Water/Meth so I'm not afraid running 11.6-11.7 AF...
I do watch my IDC and I have been running 90%-93% IDC at redline for a while, I also watch my AIT coz below freezing my Inj is maxed out at 6psi so I just lower my boost(that is why my first log only go to 7psi.. compare the AIT column between 2 logs
). I know I'm pushing it but I dont spend a lot of time up there(redline) so 90%-93% is ok as long as I dont spend a lot of time up there. Here are part of my logs at 8psi-9psi and my MAF is just pegged at 5V even befor it get there, good thing I'm running speed density so I'm using a Map sensor else I'll be ****ed using the stock MAF. I have Water/Meth so I'm not afraid running 11.6-11.7 AF...Code:
[TSMP][RPM][PSIG][MAF][TPS][LOD][KN][SIG][IDC%][IGN][VOEF][BMV][MMV][WBO2][AIT][CLT] 005.39 5821 +4.7 4.6 100 50 0 10.9 58.0 15.0 +1.0 000 4.3 12.35 027 089 005.59 5116 +6.7 4.6 99 80 0 15.9 71.1 13.2 +1.0 000 4.6 11.83 026 089 005.80 4990 +8.5 4.8 100 90 0 10.9 80.1 11.5 +1.0 000 4.6 11.55 027 089 005.99 5027 +8.8 4.9 99 90 0 17.0 83.5 11.4 +1.0 000 4.6 11.71 026 089 006.20 5082 +8.2 4.9 100 80 0 14.1 84.3 14.0 +1.0 000 4.5 11.78 027 089 006.40 5223 +7.6 5.0 100 80 0 18.9 84.9 15.1 +1.0 000 4.6 11.60 026 089 006.59 5370 +7.5 5.0 100 80 0 19.4 85.9 15.2 +1.0 000 4.6 11.51 028 089 006.80 5504 +7.7 5.0 99 80 0 19.4 87.2 15.8 +1.0 000 4.6 11.55 029 089 007.00 5633 +7.6 5.0 99 80 0 20.8 88.4 15.6 +1.0 000 4.6 11.60 029 089 007.20 5754 +7.6 5.0 100 80 0 20.8 88.5 15.7 +1.0 000 4.6 11.64 029 089 007.40 5845 +7.7 5.0 99 80 0 22.0 89.5 15.3 +1.0 000 4.6 11.68 029 089 007.59 5989 +7.8 5.0 100 80 0 21.8 90.2 15.3 +1.0 000 4.6 11.72 029 089 007.79 6134 +7.8 5.0 99 80 0 21.7 90.7 16.0 +1.0 000 4.6 11.74 029 089 007.98 6255 +7.6 5.0 99 80 0 22.8 91.1 16.5 +1.0 000 4.6 11.73 030 089 008.19 6380 +7.8 5.0 100 80 0 22.8 92.1 16.3 +1.0 000 4.6 11.75 030 089 008.39 6503 +7.9 5.0 99 80 0 22.9 93.4 16.2 +1.0 000 4.6 11.77 031 090 008.59 7278 -3.8 3.6 1 0 0 32.9 68.1 ECU 100 000 2.9 11.74 032 089 008.79 6995 +3.0 5.0 100 50 0 28.7 63.8 10.8 100 000 4.6 11.78 030 089 008.99 6164 +7.7 4.9 100 90 0 17.1 81.7 12.8 +1.0 000 4.6 11.76 030 089 009.19 5593 +9.6 5.0 100 100 0 16.9 91.1 12.2 +1.0 000 4.6 11.63 031 089 009.39 5502 +9.2 5.0 100 90 0 19.2 90.2 12.1 100 000 4.6 11.68 031 089 009.59 5471 +8.6 5.0 100 80 0 19.4 86.9 13.7 100 000 4.6 11.69 031 089 009.79 5471 +8.0 5.0 100 80 0 19.4 87.2 14.5 100 000 4.6 11.55 030 089 009.99 5535 +7.7 5.0 100 80 0 19.4 87.4 14.5 100 000 4.6 11.46 032 089 010.19 5617 +7.9 5.0 100 80 0 19.4 87.9 14.9 100 000 4.6 11.47 031 089 010.39 5685 +7.9 5.0 100 80 0 21.0 88.3 14.9 100 000 4.6 11.50 032 089 010.59 5743 +7.8 5.0 100 80 0 21.1 88.5 14.9 100 000 4.6 11.57 032 089 010.79 5813 +7.8 5.0 100 80 0 20.9 89.1 14.9 100 000 4.6 11.59 032 089 010.99 5912 +7.9 5.0 100 80 0 20.6 89.5 14.9 100 000 4.6 11.55 032 089 011.20 6001 +7.8 5.0 100 80 0 21.7 89.9 14.9 100 000 4.6 11.53 033 089 011.39 6053 +8.0 5.0 100 80 0 21.9 90.6 15.0 100 000 4.6 11.51 032 089 011.59 6111 +7.9 5.0 100 80 0 21.7 90.7 15.5 100 000 4.6 11.48 033 089 011.80 6189 +7.6 5.0 100 80 0 21.8 90.5 15.3 100 000 4.6 11.49 033 089 011.99 6253 +8.1 5.0 100 80 0 21.8 92.3 15..0 100 000 4.6 11.49 033 089 012.20 6310 +8.1 5.0 99 80 0 22.9 92.7 16.0 100 000 4.6 11.49 033 089 016.24 6366 +8.1 5.0 100 80 0 22.9 91.3 15.9 100 000 4.6 11.61 035 090
Last edited by FI'ed G; 02-24-2009 at 06:48 PM.
#9
03-01-2009, 12:29 PM
I feel the same... Max horsepower is around 5500 so I try not to go past 6500 when I'm having fun.
The E-Ultimate does not use only MAF voltage, it uses RPM as well - see the first my first MAP above. It uses a combination of MAF v and RPM to figure out the ajustment for that cell. That's how it decides how to adjust fuel.
The E-Ultimate does not use only MAF voltage, it uses RPM as well - see the first my first MAP above. It uses a combination of MAF v and RPM to figure out the ajustment for that cell. That's how it decides how to adjust fuel.
#10
03-01-2009, 09:16 PM
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I was going to ask you for some logs above 5500rpm to see what happening up top.
RPM is not enough, when your MAF is pegged at 5V, you are basically just guessing up top, you cant assume the load will be the same all the time in the higher rpm especially when you keep changing gears, Air Flow, Intake Temp, altitude....etc all might change, the MAF is in charge of monitoring all those things so you loose all those variables to fin tune the car.
Good luck but you are missing a lot of power because you were not able to use your higher rpm and also risking blowing your motor. First guessing above 5500rpm is bad because the stock ECU stop monitory Knock/Detonation above 5000rpm so if something goes wrong then you are on your own.
RPM is not enough, when your MAF is pegged at 5V, you are basically just guessing up top, you cant assume the load will be the same all the time in the higher rpm especially when you keep changing gears, Air Flow, Intake Temp, altitude....etc all might change, the MAF is in charge of monitoring all those things so you loose all those variables to fin tune the car.
Good luck but you are missing a lot of power because you were not able to use your higher rpm and also risking blowing your motor. First guessing above 5500rpm is bad because the stock ECU stop monitory Knock/Detonation above 5000rpm so if something goes wrong then you are on your own.
#12
03-02-2009, 12:30 AM
When you tune using a dyno, you are tuning for max load. If you tune that way, anything less than max load will be a little rich and save your a$$ when not at max load. When I tune the upper end, I use max load for the same reason. If you take a look at all the dyno graphs posted here, you'll see that all G35s reach max power around 5500 (built engines a little higher). My dyno runs were the same. I didn't guess at that number.
#13
03-02-2009, 01:04 AM
Lots of good info on tuning with the Emanage - thanks for sharing that slider, but the fact is that the stock ECU may change fuel and timing maps on the fly, which takes your Emanage tune out of sync. Without absolute control over timing especially, you're asking for trouble. If you've had your stock ECU reflashed so it's stuck on one map, then that's fine, otherwise, be careful.
#14
03-02-2009, 10:13 AM
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When you tune using a dyno, you are tuning for max load. If you tune that way, anything less than max load will be a little rich and save your a$$ when not at max load. When I tune the upper end, I use max load for the same reason. If you take a look at all the dyno graphs posted here, you'll see that all G35s reach max power around 5500 (built engines a little higher). My dyno runs were the same. I didn't guess at that number.
If you bring down your rev limit to 6000rpm because your MAF is maxed out then you will loose a lot of races because your cutting your gear short and you'll end up in the higher gear much sooner. As an example I went to the track and shifted at 6000rpm and I only trapped 106mph but when I start shifting 6600rpm I ended up trapping 111mph...
Can you post some logs all the way to 6500rpm and on different days with different temperature and let us see if your tune is consistent. I'm curious if your tune will hold.. Good luck.