K, need honest, serious input on the grounding kits...
Have you ever done them? I can GUARANTEE you that it makes the electronics much better, especially if you have an audio setup. Lots of audio guys do this, however its only 3 wires and it's known as the Big 3. You run a wire from the battery positive to alternator positive, battery negative to chassis, and battery negative to engine block. Many people use 1/0, but it's actually not necessary. 4 awg is sufficient. It definitely helps with voltage drop and is the FIRST thing to do as far as an electrical upgrade with doing an audio setup. The next thing depends on how severe voltage drop is. You can either get another battery such as an Optima, Kinetik, Odyssey, Powermaster, Deka, Northstar, etc... I prefer Odyssey, or you can get a high output alternator. If you're going for a system that needs lots of power, around 2k, maybe 1.5k rms or higher, or using amplifiers that draw a lot of current, both would be best to go with. The final thing to do is add another battery or several batteries in the trunk. Notice how I didn't mention a capacitor...that's because they don't do anything. It's a bandaid and if your electrical system is not up to par, it's actual an extra load on your electrical since it doesn't charge fast enough to discharge, that's why a battery is better. The only purpose for them is for looks or if your electrical is already good, but if it's good, why waste money on it?
when dealing with an audio setup, yes, this is a great mod. i KNOW because i am an electrical/computer engineer. I have also done this mod on some of my other cars that had systems in them. And if you have a system, I recommend this
but thats as far as it goes, nothing else changes. you needs a serious audio system to benefit from this mod.
im sick of people saying they "feel" a difference in performance in their car.
if the manufacture of the wires wanted to sell more wires, then they should get an oscilloscope, and spend one weekend with a STOCK car on a dyno and post some before/after results showing a higher current draw on stock components, or less of a V drop, or less independence across key circuits. (notice how nobody has ever done that)
if your as smart as you say you are(and im not implying thats your not), then you know exactly what i am talking about..
this mod is for audio systems only, every other + claim is BS
Audio setups have a highly variably current draw, with high spikes(which, as you know, causes the Voltage drop, which affects every thing electronic)
when dealing with an audio setup, yes, this is a great mod. i KNOW because i am an electrical/computer engineer. I have also done this mod on some of my other cars that had systems in them. And if you have a system, I recommend this
but thats as far as it goes, nothing else changes. you needs a serious audio system to benefit from this mod.
im sick of people saying they "feel" a difference in performance in their car.
if the manufacture of the wires wanted to sell more wires, then they should get an oscilloscope, and spend one weekend with a STOCK car on a dyno and post some before/after results showing a higher current draw on stock components, or less of a V drop, or less independence across key circuits. (notice how nobody has ever done that)
if your as smart as you say you are(and im not implying thats your not), then you know exactly what i am talking about..
this mod is for audio systems only, every other + claim is BS
when dealing with an audio setup, yes, this is a great mod. i KNOW because i am an electrical/computer engineer. I have also done this mod on some of my other cars that had systems in them. And if you have a system, I recommend this
but thats as far as it goes, nothing else changes. you needs a serious audio system to benefit from this mod.
im sick of people saying they "feel" a difference in performance in their car.
if the manufacture of the wires wanted to sell more wires, then they should get an oscilloscope, and spend one weekend with a STOCK car on a dyno and post some before/after results showing a higher current draw on stock components, or less of a V drop, or less independence across key circuits. (notice how nobody has ever done that)
if your as smart as you say you are(and im not implying thats your not), then you know exactly what i am talking about..
this mod is for audio systems only, every other + claim is BS
I get exactly what you're saying. I really want to see if it improves shifting in manumatic mode. I feel that if there is a difference it has to do with the TCU. I'll find out when I get around to it, but it's always difficult to tell because our minds can play tricks on us quite easily.
My suspicion is that many buyers WANT to feel a difference b/c they dropped $100 on the product, however, I can't argue with them until I try a before and after with and without the grounding kits on identical (for all intents and purposes) G35 5AT sedans.
It's VERY hard, in fact down right nearly impossible, for the average Joe to produce any sort of scientific, objective data to verify any "felt" performance gains (i.e. better shifting, in any mode.
One thing that anyone can do is purchase a digital audio meter, and measure the before and after decibel level of the stock audio system at 50% volume level (according to the infiniti GUI), 75% and 100%. I've seen many claims of increased "loudness" at lower volume levels....
Don't know how you can objectively measure the timing between shifts as there are too many variables -- the only reliable one would be measure shift speeds at WOT, then at a set cruising speed, shifting from 1st to 2nd, 2nd to 3rd, etc. still lots of variables (incline, tire pressure, road surface type, wind, altitude, yada yada)... but if the differences are determined on the SAME care on the same road on the same day, BEFORE and AFTER black betty kit installs... then maybe we'll have something.
$0.02
Oh, and any mods I've had in the past on my Acura TL (intake, headers, exhaust, pulley) I've dyno'd to see the results, BEFORE and AFTER, same dyno, same day, same weather conditions, before and after mods, same gear pull.
It's VERY hard, in fact down right nearly impossible, for the average Joe to produce any sort of scientific, objective data to verify any "felt" performance gains (i.e. better shifting, in any mode.
One thing that anyone can do is purchase a digital audio meter, and measure the before and after decibel level of the stock audio system at 50% volume level (according to the infiniti GUI), 75% and 100%. I've seen many claims of increased "loudness" at lower volume levels....
Don't know how you can objectively measure the timing between shifts as there are too many variables -- the only reliable one would be measure shift speeds at WOT, then at a set cruising speed, shifting from 1st to 2nd, 2nd to 3rd, etc. still lots of variables (incline, tire pressure, road surface type, wind, altitude, yada yada)... but if the differences are determined on the SAME care on the same road on the same day, BEFORE and AFTER black betty kit installs... then maybe we'll have something.
$0.02
Oh, and any mods I've had in the past on my Acura TL (intake, headers, exhaust, pulley) I've dyno'd to see the results, BEFORE and AFTER, same dyno, same day, same weather conditions, before and after mods, same gear pull.
I agree... I spent the $100 expecting nothing, and for the first 100 miles, that's what I got.
I personally don't notice the difference in gauge brightness anymore.
I spend 99% of my time in M mode, so I also don't notice shift times changing, but I did when I drove in D mode. (Not so much in DS... that seemed quicker already)
I do notice a slight change in throttle response and I definitely notice a little more power going to the subs... the stereo just sounds a little better.
It won't turn your G into a Porsche 911.
I still have mine and have no plans on removing them.
I personally don't notice the difference in gauge brightness anymore.
I spend 99% of my time in M mode, so I also don't notice shift times changing, but I did when I drove in D mode. (Not so much in DS... that seemed quicker already)
I do notice a slight change in throttle response and I definitely notice a little more power going to the subs... the stereo just sounds a little better.
It won't turn your G into a Porsche 911.
I still have mine and have no plans on removing them.
Pi$$es me off when people BS about things they don't know.
Here's the benefits that I saw:
1) A slight but noticeable hesitation between acceleration/deacceleration at very low speed driving (0-5mph). I'm pretty sure someone made a thread about that. It went away after installing the kit.
2) Downshifting using M mode is much quicker. It shifts as soon you hit it. Before the GW, it would lag between shifts. Infact there's a thread a few month back that discusses this lag. It's gone now.
3) After coming to a stop (like at a traffic light), the car's idle RPM would drop to 500 or so before going back to ~650. There's a thread about that too. Guess what? That too is gone.
Here's the benefits that I saw:
1) A slight but noticeable hesitation between acceleration/deacceleration at very low speed driving (0-5mph). I'm pretty sure someone made a thread about that. It went away after installing the kit.
2) Downshifting using M mode is much quicker. It shifts as soon you hit it. Before the GW, it would lag between shifts. Infact there's a thread a few month back that discusses this lag. It's gone now.
3) After coming to a stop (like at a traffic light), the car's idle RPM would drop to 500 or so before going back to ~650. There's a thread about that too. Guess what? That too is gone.
Registered User
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 3,867
Likes: 1
From: SoCal -818-
Well for people who dont notice a difference, its probably because you guys didnt take the paint off the body before you put it on. That is something that is a must. I have had my friends drive my car and even feel a difference.
It also depends on the kit you get. I had a stillen grounding kit on mine at first and i threw that junk away. As soon as i bought the black betty kit, i felt a difference once i put it in drive.
You know that little jolt you get when u shift it into drive, I havent had that since i got this kit.
My up shifts and down shifts are quicker, and it doesnt have that nasty lag i used to have before.
My car in D mode feels like my car is onnly going through one gear, i dont feel the car shifting at all.
My throttle response is unbelievable, but thats also because of my reflash, but the V2 TB kit seemed to have made it better.
The radio is a bit louder, not the system, the radio. There might be a difference in audio but not enough for me to hear. Especially since these are still the stock speakers.
For those who think this is gimmick and a joke, then come and drive my car.
Maybe your doing something wrong or you just dont know how your car performs before and after, a lot of people cant.
It might have been from the kit you had before, because i had that problem too. I spent 130 bux on stillen BS grounding kit and i through it in the garbage, but now i have these thick azz wires by Black Betty and i do not regret getting it.
I wouldnt lie about my difference, if i didnt feel anything i would've thrown this away too lol
Like i said, depends on the kit and the person.
This isnt going to make your car any faster on the drag strip, NOT AT ALLLL.
No hp, not even a little kick of power, 0, nada. SO stop b!tching how you didnt feel anything, because this isnt a performance mod. Your going to get the same times on the track the last you ran on the track without the kit.
Nubs **** me off when they buy things when they dont even know what its for or what they are going to notice. They always want to feel that BIG difference. Well its not, its all on YOU to know your car.
So i laugh at you
It also depends on the kit you get. I had a stillen grounding kit on mine at first and i threw that junk away. As soon as i bought the black betty kit, i felt a difference once i put it in drive.
You know that little jolt you get when u shift it into drive, I havent had that since i got this kit.
My up shifts and down shifts are quicker, and it doesnt have that nasty lag i used to have before.
My car in D mode feels like my car is onnly going through one gear, i dont feel the car shifting at all.
My throttle response is unbelievable, but thats also because of my reflash, but the V2 TB kit seemed to have made it better.
The radio is a bit louder, not the system, the radio. There might be a difference in audio but not enough for me to hear. Especially since these are still the stock speakers.
For those who think this is gimmick and a joke, then come and drive my car.
Maybe your doing something wrong or you just dont know how your car performs before and after, a lot of people cant.
It might have been from the kit you had before, because i had that problem too. I spent 130 bux on stillen BS grounding kit and i through it in the garbage, but now i have these thick azz wires by Black Betty and i do not regret getting it.
I wouldnt lie about my difference, if i didnt feel anything i would've thrown this away too lol
Like i said, depends on the kit and the person.
This isnt going to make your car any faster on the drag strip, NOT AT ALLLL.
No hp, not even a little kick of power, 0, nada. SO stop b!tching how you didnt feel anything, because this isnt a performance mod. Your going to get the same times on the track the last you ran on the track without the kit.
Nubs **** me off when they buy things when they dont even know what its for or what they are going to notice. They always want to feel that BIG difference. Well its not, its all on YOU to know your car.
So i laugh at you
guys, thanks, appreciate the feedback. I'll probably just bite the bullet and do it. I've heard the term "grounding wires" and "big3" too many times on many forums over the years to ignore it.
TO G35ROBBY:
Why would stillen wires not work as well as betty's? What's the difference?
You got to admit, it sounds odd to say that one brand of copper wires doesn't work at all compared to the other brand...i'm a bit confused on that one.
I'm not busting ***** here, don't take it that way, just want clarification.
Thanks boys!
TO G35ROBBY:
Why would stillen wires not work as well as betty's? What's the difference?
You got to admit, it sounds odd to say that one brand of copper wires doesn't work at all compared to the other brand...i'm a bit confused on that one.
I'm not busting ***** here, don't take it that way, just want clarification.
Thanks boys!
Registered User
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 3,867
Likes: 1
From: SoCal -818-
I have no idea honestly. I dont know what much about wires and how much better they are between other materials.
It was much more expensive so i thought it would've been better, especially since it had more wires than the BB kit. I was wrong big time. I didnt feel anything what so ever. I even had my reflash with it.
Its my opinion that when i said it depends on the kit.
Black Betty also has some high quality wires, some of the best i've seen. I give him mad props for making these. It performs better than it looks.
Stillens looked like **** and performed like ****. I didnt feel a damn thing.
But with the BB kit, you felt it right away. The first thing i noticed was when i put the car in D, it didnt even jolt, still felt like the car was at idle. It was really trippy lol
I even took off the paint so i'll fill get the potential of this kit and it helped a lot. Maybe thats why some people didnt feel a difference either.
For those who have the BB kit or are thinking of getting it, take the paint off like i did. It really does help.
It was much more expensive so i thought it would've been better, especially since it had more wires than the BB kit. I was wrong big time. I didnt feel anything what so ever. I even had my reflash with it.
Its my opinion that when i said it depends on the kit.
Black Betty also has some high quality wires, some of the best i've seen. I give him mad props for making these. It performs better than it looks.
Stillens looked like **** and performed like ****. I didnt feel a damn thing.
But with the BB kit, you felt it right away. The first thing i noticed was when i put the car in D, it didnt even jolt, still felt like the car was at idle. It was really trippy lol
I even took off the paint so i'll fill get the potential of this kit and it helped a lot. Maybe thats why some people didnt feel a difference either.
For those who have the BB kit or are thinking of getting it, take the paint off like i did. It really does help.
Audio setups have a highly variably current draw, with high spikes(which, as you know, causes the Voltage drop, which affects every thing electronic)
when dealing with an audio setup, yes, this is a great mod. i KNOW because i am an electrical/computer engineer. I have also done this mod on some of my other cars that had systems in them. And if you have a system, I recommend this
but thats as far as it goes, nothing else changes. you needs a serious audio system to benefit from this mod.
im sick of people saying they "feel" a difference in performance in their car.
if the manufacture of the wires wanted to sell more wires, then they should get an oscilloscope, and spend one weekend with a STOCK car on a dyno and post some before/after results showing a higher current draw on stock components, or less of a V drop, or less independence across key circuits. (notice how nobody has ever done that)
if your as smart as you say you are(and im not implying thats your not), then you know exactly what i am talking about..
this mod is for audio systems only, every other + claim is BS
when dealing with an audio setup, yes, this is a great mod. i KNOW because i am an electrical/computer engineer. I have also done this mod on some of my other cars that had systems in them. And if you have a system, I recommend this
but thats as far as it goes, nothing else changes. you needs a serious audio system to benefit from this mod.
im sick of people saying they "feel" a difference in performance in their car.
if the manufacture of the wires wanted to sell more wires, then they should get an oscilloscope, and spend one weekend with a STOCK car on a dyno and post some before/after results showing a higher current draw on stock components, or less of a V drop, or less independence across key circuits. (notice how nobody has ever done that)
if your as smart as you say you are(and im not implying thats your not), then you know exactly what i am talking about..
this mod is for audio systems only, every other + claim is BS
No paint = instant rust!
do you know what that jolt is that you feel when you go from n/p to d?
its the drive train loading up with the idle torq of the motor. OR its the torq load transferring from the parking cog to the brakes as the park cog is removed from the drive train.
if ur not feeling it, then the torq from the engine is not as great(different RPMS when the clutch packs engage in the tranny), the drive train is already preloaded (parked on a slight hill), tranny oil is at a slightly different viscosity(cold morning starts), the park gear cog that locks the drive train is not under a torq load when its pulled out of the drive train(parking on a hill).
my point here is that there is a Multitude of issues that can related to the torq load that you feel.
the funny thing is, that IF the tranny shift control circuits got more current, and delivered more current to the selinoide actuators that control the hydraulic valves in the tranny, they would react faster, which means a quicker engagement, which would mean more of a jolt on switching gears, not a smoother one
if you feel happy with you mod, then im happy that you feel that way.
its the drive train loading up with the idle torq of the motor. OR its the torq load transferring from the parking cog to the brakes as the park cog is removed from the drive train.
if ur not feeling it, then the torq from the engine is not as great(different RPMS when the clutch packs engage in the tranny), the drive train is already preloaded (parked on a slight hill), tranny oil is at a slightly different viscosity(cold morning starts), the park gear cog that locks the drive train is not under a torq load when its pulled out of the drive train(parking on a hill).
my point here is that there is a Multitude of issues that can related to the torq load that you feel.
the funny thing is, that IF the tranny shift control circuits got more current, and delivered more current to the selinoide actuators that control the hydraulic valves in the tranny, they would react faster, which means a quicker engagement, which would mean more of a jolt on switching gears, not a smoother one
if you feel happy with you mod, then im happy that you feel that way.
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,588
Likes: 24
From: SoCal
I got the BB grounding kit pretty much expecting it to be a fluke and to my surprise I felt a very noticeable differense in shifting speed (both upshifts and downshifts), particularly in DS and M modes. My wife even commented on it her frst time driving the car after I intalled the wires (even though she didn't know that I did anything to the car).
I was so happy with my new found shift speed after installing hte BB ground kit, that I jumped all over the throttle body grounding wires as soon as Jeremy released them... Unfortunately, there was no noticeable difference with the throttle body ground wire than without them... no better throttle response or anything...
None-the-less, I am still very please with my speedier shifts!
I was so happy with my new found shift speed after installing hte BB ground kit, that I jumped all over the throttle body grounding wires as soon as Jeremy released them... Unfortunately, there was no noticeable difference with the throttle body ground wire than without them... no better throttle response or anything...
None-the-less, I am still very please with my speedier shifts!