Wheels & Tires Grabbing the road and stopping.

Eibach's...

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Old 08-18-2003, 10:17 PM
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Re: Eibach's...

I just did mine too this past Saturday, and I know what you mean about the front struts - they were a pain in the butt. We ended up doing it like this:
- While strut is still mounted, compress spring
- Remove lower strut bolt and upper mount bolts
- Have a friend push up on the bottom of the strut to compress it while you push down on the upper arm so that it clear the lower support arm.
- Strut/spring assembly falls out (watch out for lines)
- The rest was a pain too....

I noticed the same things you did, except I saw a significant drop (today it was 1-3/8"), here's my post:

https://g35driver.com/forums/showfla...sed&sb=5&part=

 
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Old 08-19-2003, 12:21 AM
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Re: Eibach's...

If it was my how to, your welcome. I wrote it with the hope of helping other's treading the same water. http://forums3.freshalloy.com/ubbthr...b=5&o=&fpart=1

Eibach bless's their progressive springs for the FM platform variations with initial rates that are softer than stock and on the sedan the peak rate's aren't any stiffer than stock. So their not about performance, what ever you get come's from a lowered center of gravity not cause they are stiffer.

Your post cause's me some concern. Progressive springs are a compromise, ride comfort win's, but handling performance takes a hit with their initial softness. But their's something else that can come up. How well does a progressive spring manufactuer do in managing how well the spring transitions between the soft progressive rate to the firmer final rate. Hearing about hitting some bumps and having some harsh bouncing tells me these springs, might not manage this tranisition well. Their not stiffer than stock, so we can't blame that as the cause. But I haven't seen anyone else mention this. And for Z owners their softer initial rate eleminates the bounce they have, even with a 10% higher peak rate in the front.

Ivry 6mt sed
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Injen CAI
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350Z springs&struts
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Old 08-19-2003, 10:55 AM
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Re: Eibach's...

I'm surprised that you guys all went with Eibach's springs. I came to know them as being called the droppey *** springs coming from my other cars.

Persoanlly, i would never put Eibachs on my car. I would rather wait till H&R comes out with something. They are much better quality and their springs give you a true drop. while eibachs keep on sagging well after they are broken in.

just my $0.02

2003 G35C
 
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Old 08-19-2003, 12:35 PM
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Re: Eibach's...

What's that suspension that has the computer adjuster that goes inside the cars interior where the driver can change the heigh. Or was it the stifness? Let me know [img]/w3timages/icons/smile.gif[/img]!

Thanks - Joey Avino
 
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Old 08-19-2003, 02:29 PM
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Re: Eibach's...

You talking about TEIN suspension. Its a true coilover set up on which you can adjust the stiffness of the shock/strut plus ride hight. The addon is called EDFC (Electronic Damping Force Controller) basically you can stiffen up the shock/strut from inside the car. Works basically on the same principal as the remote bottle opener for Nitros kits.

i dont think its worth the money for a daily driver. that is only good when you do a lot of autocrossing or raod course racing. Most of my friends have tein suspension set up on their HONDA Preludes. I was gonna go for the same set up but went with H&R Springs and KONI YELLOW (adjustable shocks)
that suspension would be the only thing i would ever put on any car or tein. dont waste the money on anything else. i did my research and been at few road course events and autocrosses to know what works and what doesnt.

2003 G35C

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Old 08-19-2003, 04:59 PM
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Re: Eibach's...

Their's nothing wrong with someone using Tein's as a daily driver. Their's only ONE lowering spring offered right now that doesn't make the progressive spring compromise on performance. And even then the RSR down spring isn't any stiffer than stock. Just because we might not want to give up that performance or maybe we want MORE suspension performance doesn't toss us into a autocrosser or road racer catagory. That would be a misrepresentation of the product. The only coilover system were the term "not for daily driver's" should be applied would be on the Jic JIC FLT-A2RS's, not to be confused with the FLT-A2's. Based on owner comment's, the Teins would be one of the best choice's for a owner that does not want progressive springs and want's improved performace over the stock springs and struts. I've seen plenty of owner reports of very good ride quality on the softer settings.

Eibach, sprint and H&R's are all progressive lowering springs, I refuse to make the performance compromise that entails, the engineer's that built the car didn't make the compromise, neither will I. I understand that some people don't want the suspension any firmer, their the people progressive springs are ment for.

Ivry 6mt sed
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Injen CAI
22" resonator
Cusco sway bars
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Old 08-19-2003, 05:41 PM
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Re: Eibach's...

I never said that TEIN are only for autocrossers. I did say that EDFC module would be only good for someone in autocross, since you would get more use out of it since you would need adjustments on track or other factors that might come into play.

I know of plenty of people who drive on teins daily and i was going to switch to it myself on my car, but decided to put the money elsewhere.

There is nothing wrong with using progressive springs. Its actually would be a good idea to use those. as oppose to linear springs.

I for one like a more tighter suspension in conering and smooth on the straight aways. Progressive springs do that. I dont know where you got the idea that its a bad thing.
Firmer ride DOES NOT come from progressive springs it comes from Spring rate. i think you have to 2 mixed up.

I dont understand why you would want to get a lower spring for your cr and not get a firmer spring rate. What you gonna do when you hit a bump or a dip ina road... bottom out your brand new car.

2003 G35C
 
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Old 08-19-2003, 09:08 PM
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Re: Eibach's...

Glad to hear you like the springs.

 
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Old 08-19-2003, 11:00 PM
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Re: Eibach's...

myGspot (Newbie)
08/19/03 02:41 PM

1. I never said that TEIN are only for autocrossers. I did say that EDFC module would be only good for someone in autocross, since you would get more use out of it since you would need adjustments on track or other factors that might come into play.

2. I know of plenty of people who drive on teins daily and i was going to switch to it myself on my car, but decided to put the money elsewhere.

3. There is nothing wrong with using progressive springs. Its actually would be a good idea to use those. as oppose to linear springs.

4. I for one like a more tighter suspension in conering and smooth on the straight aways. Progressive springs do that. I dont know where you got the idea that its a bad thing.
Firmer ride DOES NOT come from progressive springs it comes from Spring rate. i think you have to 2 mixed up.

5. I dont understand why you would want to get a lower spring for your cr and not get a firmer spring rate. What you gonna do when you hit a bump or a dip ina road... bottom out your brand new car.

2003 G35C
__________________________________________________ _

Ok, but re-read how your text came out. However it was intended, you started a new paragraph with "i dont think its worth the money for a daily driver. that is only good when you do a lot of autocrossing or raod course racing." Leaving things a little to open. No bigger, that's why I misunderstood.

2. Ok, understood on that part

3&4. Only when a user is educated on how they are different and is willing to make the progressive spring compromise on performance for the sake of ride quality being at the front of their concern's over and above suspension performance. Here's what I mean. progressive rate springs are a bad idea for
performance driving. The reason is that the soft initial compression of the springs allow the car to roll. Then the angular momentum built up by this roll hits the firmer part of the compression. This puts a heavier load on the outside than linear springs because the linear springs would not have allowed as much roll in the first place. More body roll and less responsiveness from the springs. And contiunuing on the issue of the softer initial rate. Most progressive springs don't have "seamless" transitions in rate. They change rate in significant steps as active coils bottom on each other. A sudden change in spring rate, while at the traction limit, can result in a nasty slide.

Now if the spring wire is tapered (constantly changes wire diameter), the springs should give a "seamless" transition as you say. However, it's much cheaper to manufacture a progressive rate spring by using constant wire diameter and varying the spring pitch (distance between coils). I have yet to find a progressive spring that avoids this by design. And all this relates to how even the car's roll rate is, let me explain for both types of springs.

Let's begin with a short description of how a car rolls around its roll center during cornering and its effect on springs. The roll center is the axis made by connecting the front roll and rear roll center of a vehicle. You can sort of look at this axis as a line running from the front to the rear of the vehicle at a centerline and somewhat parallel to the ground. During cornering, the vehicle will "roll" about this axis.


Now let's look at the vehicle at rest and what the springs are doing...the spings will be compressed to "x" distance. During a corner, the springs on one side (outside) will compress at a given rate and the springs on the other side (inside) will uncompress/extend at a given rate. A linear spring has a given rate of resistance that is constant, usually given in lbs/in compression.

Now you enter a corner...one side compresses and one side extends.... A linear spring will allow the vehicle to roll "evenly" since one spring is compressing, say one inch, and the other spring is extending one inch...one spring loads with 350 lbs and one spring unloads with 350 lbs. The roll of the vehicle is balanced and controlled.

Now let's say you encounter a bump during the corner, and the deflection is an additional two inches...again, the suspension loads and unloads evenly, and again, roll is controlled, the vehicle maintains a constant attitude.

A progressive spring has two or more rates on one spring...let's assume that for the first 3 inches or three coils, the rates is 229 lbs per inch and that for the next two inches, the rate is 330 lbs per inch. Therefore, when at rest or equilibrium, the G35 will be fully compressed on the 229 lbs spring section, and the next inch of movement will be in the 330 lb per inch range.

Now let's use the same scenario......a corner is entered and the outside spring is compressed one inch and the inside spring is extended .75 inch...rememeber the rates!

Now you encounter a bump in the corner...and since you are currently using the outside spring at a rate of 330 lbs per inch and the inside spring rate of 229 lb per inch... and the suspension is compressed the additional two inches....what happens to the spring rates? Since they differ, the chassis rotates around the roll axis... and the vehicle attitude changes/rotates differently than when in steady state cornering!

Its motion becomes slightly skewed since to offset the bump deflection each spring must work through a different spring rate! If you were to then hit another bump, the attitude would change again...and so forth.

Progressive springs can be made to work in very limited conditions where the parameteres are well known, like a specific road course where telemetry is constantly giving feedback to help select the right rates.....and the designers are experts on vehicle dynamics.

5. I am specifally referering Eibach spring rate's for all FM platform applications. They use initial progressive spring rates that are softer than the stock rates which transision to final rates that are either softer than stock or hardly any different. So what you said, "I dont understand why you would want to get a lower spring for your cr and not get a firmer spring rate. What you gonna do when you hit a bump or a dip ina road... bottom out your brand new car." Certainly hits on what I just said, quite well. So I'm in agreement with you.

Eibach spring rates are listed showing the softer initial spring rate first than the final rate, all in LBS.
350Z 1"front 1"rear 6364.14 296/384 front 316/421 rear
G35s 1.1"f 1.1"rear 6363.14 259/334 front 359/413 rear
G35c 1"front 1"rear 6365.14 229/337 front 274/463 rear

Stock spring rates
F/R in lb/in
350Z: 347/419
G35: 357/407 (Sedan w/sport suspension)
G35 coupe rates should be same as 350Z (struts are diff)

Ivry 6mt sed
Crawford Pleneum
Injen CAI
22" resonator
Cusco sway bars
350Z springs&struts
Enkei RPM2

 
  #12  
Old 08-20-2003, 01:25 AM
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Re: Eibach's...

and for me i just want my car to be a litte lower but i don't want to give up the way it ride , my old car is 300zxtt i have it for over 10 years and i miss it very much,but for the g35c it is a very nice car just need to be lower and for the power it good enought for me . I' ve spent so much money on the Z , u guy are great.

 
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Old 08-20-2003, 12:50 PM
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Re: Eibach's...

So than what's a good spring to put on my car besides Eibachs and the Teins with the computer thing? I want pure performance, I don't need to adjust anything in the car I don't think.

Thanks - Joey Avino
 
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Old 08-20-2003, 12:59 PM
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Re: Eibach's...

Slinky™

2003.5 G35 Sedan Desert Platinum/Graphite Premium/Sport/Aero/Nav/Winter
 
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Old 08-20-2003, 08:06 PM
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Re: Eibach's...

TEIN is one of the best ways to go as far as performance goes. THE computer thing as you call it (EDFC) is an ADD ON. it doesnt come with a set up, its extra.
I would get the basic TEIN true coilover set up, adjust the ride to the hight you want, and then from there on ...you can just play around with a stiffness all you want. Some days have it stiffer then other some days softer.
-- Thats the best i can suggest. But be expected to spend about $1,500 on it.

If you want a good budget performance. I would wait until H&R Sport springs come out. and get those. Those are great and you will be much happy with them.

But be aware if you lover the car, but dont change the shock/struts. Eventually they will go and you will need new once. I'm sure you wont have to worry about it since you have a new car, but just keep in mind.
My personal and experienced opinion is as goes: If you gonna do something right... do it right the first time. Dont ever half *** what you do to a car. Spend the money and get something good and not cheap crap that will break down on you or not perform to par as the best thing.
-If you have the money go TEIN
-If you dont have a lot go H&R Sports Springs
-or H&R Sports Springs and KONI Yellow (Adjustable shocks) this way you will have the performance you are looking for but at a lower price tag. Plus adjustable shocks will come in handy on those days you wanna do some spirited driving.

2003 G35C
 


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