No, the battery ground is probably the LEAST important of all the Hyper-Grounds! With cars like the BMWs and the Audi A8, I don't even run a ground to the battery, which is in the trunk. Still notice the typical improvements of H-G kits that have the battery negative ground! Of course, only a dyno would show for sure, but according to the theory of how the H-G systems work, the EEs and techs that I spoke to just say that unless the stock battery ground is really poor, the H-G one going to the battery isn't going to improve the signal going to the ECU, nor do anything else that is consistent with current H-G theory.

That's why I'm not convinced that some of the generic kits with a central grounding block attached to the battery negative do as much as a well designed 'daisy-chain' system. Though it can look more interesting (cool), it doesn't increase the efficiency of the transfer of information to the ECU. In fact, it can even add a bit of collateral noise!

One of the commercial systems on the market actually uses really cheap looking tinny terminal lugs and a blue anodized aluminum distribution block. It goes against everything we know about H-G theory and from feedback that I've heard, makes for a minimal difference in performance, and little else other than dressing up the engine bay! $200 CDN is a lot to pay for 'engine jewelry'!!! I had one local guy pull it off his VW to get a set of GroundingGear™. He sold his other kit to someone else that seems to be happy with it, since he got it for 1/2 retail. But then, the other guy just spent a couple hundred on Altezza lights that didn't improve his performance [i]at all!



<font color=green>GroundingGear™ Equipped </font color=green>

 

Whoops, I forgot to answer you.

My other GroundingGear™ client that ran the dynos just disconnected the two primary ground clusters at the left side and on the front of the intake plenum and taped them up. This prevents them from interacting on the rest of the engine, effectively disconnecting the H-G system from the ECU, etc. It's probalby the easiest way.

What other mods do you have?

<font color=green>GroundingGear™ Equipped </font color=green>

 

Well, I ordered a set of grounding wires from Z-Xtreme about half way through this thread.[img]/w3timages/icons/tongue.gif[/img] I didn't know Gordgee was still making them. Hopefully the quality is good from Z-Xtreme.
Now if this bitter Minnesota cold would go away I can actually install this stuff soon...

2004 G35 Coupe Diamond Graphite/Graphite AT
Premium, Nav., 18" Wheels, Vanity Plate="HOTNESS"

 

Z-Xtreme makes good quality wires. One of my GroundingGear™ clients just did his 6 wire install in about 15 minutes, so just run into a heated parkade or something.[img]/w3timages/icons/laugh.gif[/img]

Of course, if you drop a bolt or something, you could be in there for hours! (Don't ask[img]/w3timages/icons/blush.gif[/img])

<font color=green>GroundingGear™ Equipped </font color=green>

 

I've been asked to do a "Users' Feedback Quotes" addition on the Hyper-Ground FAQ Thread. I guess it's a bit time consuming to read through this entire thread. I may also use it as part of promotional material for my GroundingGear™ Dealership transactions as well. So, for any of my GroundingGear™ clients, let me know if you have any objections to quoting you and including your initials and location. Please PM me before the W/E.

Thanks

<font color=green>GroundingGear™ Equipped </font color=green>

 

Well, I received my Z-Xtreme 7 wire kit today and despite the bitter cold outside (-5F), I installed 6 of them in about an hour. (actually not that bad in the garage)
Since it snowed and the roads are very slick, I didn't really get to test out anything so far. The engine start was perhaps a hair smoother, but I don't know for sure. One thing I did notice after getting a new tank of gas is that the MPG reading on my NAV seem to be updating more frequently. I've driven with the Fuel Economy screen up many times before and don't remember it changing so much. If I just get better fuel economy out of this mod I'd be a happy man.
Anyway, as a former EE and after consulting with my phD EE friend, I think this mod does make a lot of sense in that it should provide cleaner signals into the ECU.
I'll post more observations if I observe anything.
BTW, the Z-Xtreme cables looks to be of excellent quality.

2004 G35 Coupe Diamond Graphite/Graphite AT
Premium, Nav., 18" Wheels, Vanity Plate="HOTNESS"

 

I can't believe I read the whole thing. Learned somethings though.

I know very little about car engines and electronics, but I have a Master's of Engineering in Engineering Mathematics and Computer Science (whew) and I had to take all the important EE courses for my degrees, I have a good understanding of processing systems and control systems, and I know a thing or two about testing.

Obviously this is based on my apriori knowledge and what I learned from this massive thread. It is long so hold on and remember this is just a theory.

Assumption #1: That grounding does something positive. The most common change noted is 'smooth'. Next is a small (provable if the dynos are correct) HP improvement that varies depending on RPM. Another common one (that will be important in my hypothesis) is that the car reacts better when the AC compressor kicks in. Many AT users (wasting a coupe if you ask me) have also noted their shifting is better. A few folks talk about slightly improved gas mileage.

Assumption #2: An ECU receives analog signals of varying frequencies including both low, medium, extra medium, and high frequencies and uses this information to make rapid changes to various engine, transmission, and braking controls.

Assumption #3: Various sensors are located in various parts of the engine, transmission, and brakes. These electronics are typically grounded through their cases. A common ground for the car exists by wire and by contact between various parts of varying materials, temperatures, and attachments.This results in varying resistance (or impedance if you prefer - I have to admit - I never really got impedance) between a particular device and the true common ground. Plus things are vibrating, heating and cooling, and sparking. Plus cops are bathing you in electromagnetic waves (pigs got ray guns). All this means electrons (or holes if you prefer) have varying paths to ground with varying resistance meaning some work harder to get where they are going (sort of). This can create a situation where not all grounds are the same (so to speak). This is sometimes called a floating ground though that really means nothing.

Fact #1: These cables are shorts from one ground to another and provide a more efficient path for electron movement.

Fact #2: This should ensure that the ground among various components has been, for lack of a better term, equalized. If done right this should reduce electrical noise by giving various noisy signals a route to ground that does not have them passing over and through other devices through the various ground pathways available without a grounding kit.

Fact #3: Noise in real time control systems is random.The feedback and dampening characteristics of any system must be able to compensate for a wide variety of states, inputs, and output conditions. When they don't they tend to destroy themselves (i.e. a broken thermostat can sometimes cycle your furnace to destruction). Noise causes random variations in input which result in a resulting output change in the system. Normal noise is damped out. Really bad noise can make an other wise normal system run crazy. The inputs from environment sensors tend to change in gradual manner (even a fast climb up a mountain (air thinner, air colder) is slow compared to the speed of the sparks firing the pistons). The inputs from the user are either continuously smooth (steering, throttle, brake) or discreet (gear shift (6MT), brake). The ECU is controlling some things that change more slowly (choke, final throttle setting, AT shifts) and others very quickly (variable timing of the valves).

Fact #4: No one has really tested this appropriately. Or should I say no one has posted any in this thread. Too much butt dyno and too many "I don't know what it is, but something is different". A few tests on a real dyno one day don't answer anything either though it does raise interesting questions. I want more testing - no kit, kit, no kit, kit, etc. I want tests run over several different days under extremely controlled conditions (warm up time, etc.). There is even the possibility that after the ECU runs for awhile it counters the changes from grounding in trying to target its preprogrammed operating parameters. My understanding has been that ECUs are not context free (i.e. context free would mean they don't remember how you drive over time, but make all decisions based only on inputs at this moment). If they are context based (i.e. they know how you drive and adjust the car to give you characteristics that fit your driving) it is possible that for awhile the car is different, but that over time (a few days of operation) it returns to its more normal characteristics. Why hasn't there been a single post quoting anything from the racing world on this technology. Do they do this in Formula 1? Or design the car to have special electrical characteristics normal cars don't and that the kit takes a step toward? Surely somewhere is information from a reputable racing team on what they get out of grounding kits and why.

Theory #1: Grounding kits, by lowering the noise load meaning the ECU gets a smoother and more accurate reading of its various input signals. This filters out the tiny reactions it makes to the normal noise level. This would explain the 'smooth' feeling after installing a kit.

Theory #2: If any thing could be wrong with grounding kits it is that the ECU is programmed to react a certain way under certain conditions and the kit sure looks like it is doing something to those conditions. This could result in changes in temperature, how the various devices work together, emissions (cough, cough), change AT shift points, even performance of safety features such as the VDC, TCS, and the ABS. Some of these could eventually be bad for the engine, the transmission, the brakes, the environment, or for you and your passengers. It may not necessarily good that the engine is idling at a lower RPM, etc. And the fact that the HP is not even across RPM may indicate that the ECU is a bit off now (chipless chipping so to speak). Remember that those race cars that get enough benefit from this sort of thing to counter the increased weight also rebuild engines every week and would gladly sacrifice engine life (as long it lasts longer than the race) for a win.

Theory #3: The AT could be improved because the ECU is able to more accurately decide when to shift without any flutter around the shift points.

Theory #4: The AC is a compressor which puts a large load on the power system with a very large surge as it first gets cranking. A better path to ground could damp induced noise to other devices and possibly damp the dip in amperage devices see as the compressor starts sucking power. It is even possible to see short term current reversals when something like a compressor starts. Once again the ECU reacts more evenly resulting in a smoother feel. The bad thing could be that the ECU is supposed to juice the throttle a bit when the AC starts which may not be occuring (inducing smoothness that may not actually be good).

Theory #5: The smoothness may improve MPG if you are a smooth driver. If you drive like me I doubt the grounding can make up for my massive right foot.

If something like this isn't going on then I would guess most of the effect is placebo. At least its easy, cheap, and probably safe.

I may or may not get one for my G35 Coupe 6MT ordered yesterday.

milo

P.S. Just read a page from sigmaautomotive.com that claims to give more facts (though they are selling you something so you have to take it with a grain of salt) about the racing background and the results. Not much detail on theory, but nothing that counters what I say above. Doesn't seem to mention high-end racing teams. Maybe all we need are long term tests to measure long term vehicle health. I guess I'll ask Infiniti service what they think.

They are pretty.

 

Milo:

Thanks for that extremely detailed analysis. It's similar to the content of several late-night discussions that I've had with a couple of Electrical Engineers back when I was doing some of the ground-work to answer my own questions and skepticism. You've now put the majority of that down in print!

Again, your post is much appreciated!

Gord

<font color=green>GroundingGear™ Equipped </font color=green>

 

(I told Stan I'd thank him publicly.)


I got this e-mail from SM, here in Edmonton. He bought his JWT Pop-Charger from Jason at Performance Nissan Parts (said he got great service from them, BTW) and it arrived just prior to him buying and installing GroundingGear™ at the local (authorized GroundingGear™ dealer) Infiniti Dealership last Monday.

<font color=blue>"Hi Gord,
Had my GroundingGear installed and seems like the engine is reving really smooth now. Have decided not to install the popcharger...my car is running really well right now and I don't want to push my luck with any further mods. So, you can have my popcharger for free if you would like. If you are interested, this one has your name on it. Let me know.

Stan."</font color=blue>

We met for coffee and he gave me his Pop-Charger on Thursday! (Thanks again Stan!)

BTW, the other mods he has on his Coupe are the Z-Duct, and a Fujitsubo Exhaust System.

Now if only we get out of this deep-freeze (windchill at -54F), I can install this puppy![img]/w3timages/icons/laugh.gif[/img]




<font color=green>GroundingGear™ Equipped </font color=green>

 

Come on GG don't be a wimp.

03.5 5AT-S (Black-Willow-Premium-Sport-Aero-GroundingGear™-Silverstars-PIAA)

 

Hi Gord,

I like your cables and what it is doing for my car even more. I personally did not follow exactly the directions you sent me. I changed locations of some of the grounding points. The biggest grounding point changes is to make a connection to the big factory ground wire under the coolant and I also grounded the other factory ground which is located in on the other side of the cam cover passenger side. The rest of the install is same as yours. This is actually my second round of rewiring. This set up seems better than my first one.
The car seems very responsive, and has a very smooth and quick shift. The irritating delay shift is now alsmost non-existent. Also, I do not have to step on the gas as much as before the wiring kit. I love what this wiring kit has done. It has made my ride even more fun to drive. Thanks again Gord!

 

I installed Gordons 7 wire set as he indicated. Then added
his 8th wire. I also found the massive factory ground by the
washer tank....so I made up 4 more wires and added the
3 additional factory grounds to the loop plus one other of
questionable value, bringing the wire count to twelve.

2003 Twilight Blue 5AT Sedan, sunroof,
Graphite Leather, splashguards,
12 wire Hyper-grounding kit,
350Z intake duct, Stillen Hi-Flow Airbox
Underbody rear diffusers, Drilled aluminum pedals

 

Thanks for the info guys. I'm going to have to look into that factory ground under the coolant tank (when it's no longer -40 outside[img]/w3timages/icons/blush.gif[/img]). If it looks promising, I'll do it as another R&D option.

<font color=green>GroundingGear™ Equipped </font color=green>

 

Just because a few ppl have asked what kind of crimper I use for GroundingGear™. It's a custom designed tool that can apply up to 4000 pounds per square inch and ensures a mechanically superior connection and maximum transfer of electrical signal. Here's a close up of the head unit and the attachment that allows consistent lug connections every time!

And yes, Cato, that's part of the reason you couldn't get yours to look like mine.[img]/w3timages/icons/smile.gif[/img]

<font color=green>GroundingGear™ Equipped </font color=green>

179405-Machine Crimper, reduced.JPG

 

My hands still ache from using those vice grip pliers
to crimp my own cables. I still dream of getting some
sort of crimper to make my wires closer to the quality
of yours.......Sigh........

2003 Twilight Blue 5AT Sedan, sunroof,
Graphite Leather, splashguards,
12 wire Hyper-grounding kit,
350Z intake duct, Stillen Hi-Flow Airbox
Underbody rear diffusers, Drilled aluminum pedals