true but most SC applications are carb legal. No bolt on turbo kits that I am aware of (for any car) pass smog

 

Superchargers are easier to get CARB approved than T/TT applications for sure. They don't have the cold start issues that T/TT applications do.

 

Wrong again counselor. There are bolt on turbo kits out there for other platforms that are absolutely carb legal! C'mon now, you should understand the value of research.

Also, many of the S/C's that are carb legal only are if you are running the tune and stock size pulley that came with the carb approved kit. Most will do a more agressive tune/smaller pulley and this makes it no longer carb exempt (although I guess you could always replace the stock pulley and map to pass smog if u have to)

 

I meant with a built motor, that's doing it right with a TT.

Supercharger is quite a bit cheaper as well and you don't need things like boost controller, gauges, misc turbo stuff, etc. I wasn't running any gauges with my Vortech and it was rock solid.

 

i just ordered a fully built long block and will arrive shortly. anyone that has vortech, what is the average WHP gain with stock compression? I'm having a hard time deciding on what compression.... Do i really need to lower my compression or can I keep it 101?

(this is a great thread...)

 

With a built engine, why are you going with a supercharger?

 

I want a daily driver... seems like turbos are more of a headache then supercharger....plus, if you blow a turbo, car is not driveable... supercharged, you can still run without it... just trying to be resonable with what i get. I want a car that will get about 450WHP. Bad idea????? Suggestions please.

 

name one. I only said to my knowledge, therefore, I can't be wrong with that statement. I like the counselor part though

uhhhh, the whole point of being carb approved is that the kit will pass the sniff test and it has the indication that the system is legal.

 

Well you are comparing apples and oranges then. There are a number of supercharged cars that are making near to or passing 500 whp with built motors.

Here's one: http://my350z.com/forum/showthread.php?t=350130
Here's another: https://g35driver.com/forums/forced-induction/214225-gt-motorsports-500rwhp-455rwtq-vortech-t-trim-fcon-vpro-gtm-built-engine.html

See link above.

Honestly, I would say, to do any FI install right you need to build the motor. I've only gone the SC route because it is more cost effective while I'm still in school. I have built motor+transmission and TT dreams for the future.

 

I never said there weren't. How many people with superchargers are going to 500whp? Out of 100, there are maybe 6 guys. You are near maxing out the charger at 500whp (not including T-Trim) and run into inherent problems of belts snapping.

With most turbo systems, 500whp is attainable without even breaking a sweat. I've been in this FI world a lot longer than you and seen pretty much everything since '03.

Like I said, even on a stock block the charger costs about 1.5-2k less, no need for gauges or fuel systems, 1k less for install comes out to quite a bit less than doing a TT system right on a stock block.

 

http://hksusa.com/info/?id=3503

HKS turbo kit for honda fit-carb approved.

There are also a couple of Greddy ST kits for other platforms that are carb approved, also Edelbrok has some carb approved kits, as do some other manufactuers

So, you're statment may not be wrong, but your information is. I don't think you're the most knowledgeable person to be given suggestions on F/I setups.

Bottom line is if you change the tune or the pulley or anything else on a carb approved kit, it no longer is carb approved for obvious reasons. If you have a dumbass tester or your upgrades are stealth and you can pass by sniff, then more power to you, but if you get caught trying to smog a carb approved kit that is modified for extra power and flow, have fun

 

My information is not wrong, just incomplete. Plus you can't compare a turbo kit for the honda fit to really any other car lol. In all you've named possibly two turbo kits that are carb legal, but for the vast majority of the kids (which is what my statement was for) turbo kits are not carb legal. Let me modify my request then, NAME 5 turbo bolt on turbo kits that pass smog.

My first car was a 96 trans am which I supercharged (back in 01). My next was a 300zx tt that made 450 whp, so I've had quite a bit of experience with FI. I just don't stalk the FI section and read other people's posts (which for the most part aren't correct and their suggestions even if they aren't wrong, are only partially correct or valid.

I can go all day with this bro....


Well, of course you want to find a dumbass tester lol, or somebody that will look the other way, but if a cop pulls you over and thinks what you have under the hood is illegal, all you have to do is point to the carb sticker lol.

 

1. Greddy 11550040 2000-2003 Honda S2000 Bolt-On Turbo Kit Carb Legal

http://www.frsport.com/Greddy-115500...al_p_8244.html

2. Edelbrock civic turbo kit carb legal

http://www.prostreetonline.com/x/ede...turbo-kits.asp

3. HKS Fit turbo

http://hksusa.com/info/?id=3503

4. STS turbo for Pontiac GTO

http://www.ststurbo.com/carb_gto

5. STS turbo for 1997-2005 Chevrolet Corvette (including Z06 models)

http://www.streetbeatcustoms.com/sts-turbo-tuners.html

6: Greddy carb legal turbo kit for civic si

http://www.weaksauceparts.com/store/...roductid=16999

I gave u 6 since u asked so nicely

Sorry OP, back on topic:

If there were to be a T/TT to gain carb exemption for our cars, the JWT TT would have the best shot imho.

 

There are an A$$ LOAD of honda Turbo Kits, rear mount, front mount, name it they are carb approved. I believe there are kits out there for the GTO, and stangs that may be carb approved I dont know the details but you'll find lots.. There are even Nitrous kits CARB approved.. it can be done just depends on the plate form.. withour cars I believe its because we cant heat up the CATS fast enough.. a way around this would be a new air injection system but then THAT has to be CARB approved as well.. in the end the company will be investing WAY too much into a kit just for a CARB stamp. So for us.. no we do not have a CARB badge on any turbo kit.

I dont see how we can get into a debate about turbos vs sc in this thread. But in terms of passing the SNIFFER and a SMOG test both kits will be able to do so with a good tune (Balancing the exhaust gases, CO, o2, NOX, etc..) thats the easy part.. Hard part: if we want to replace emission devices on a vehicle it has to be NON-ADJUSTABLE (simple enough), same function as stock (obviously), and approved (the hard part). The part has to pass a series of tests and then approved with a CARB Number.. in this case turbos will fail the engine warm up tests on our cars.. Anything can be approved is just the matter of how far they're willing to go and how much we're willing to spend.. Honestly would you fork over $15,000 per kit just to have a car approved badge? $15,000 is a few thousand shy away from a 500whp daily car.


Terms of power.. both are endless but if you ever want a 500whp monster daily driven car IMO the only way you'll do it is turbo. (before you bash hear me out) again this is IMO.

Supercharger,
Simple straight foward belt drives turbine.. but chargers like vortech and prochargers are not big enough to handle the power without doing some serious modifications - meaning we need a bigger charger like a screw or root style.. So for us to squeeze that much power out of a vortech, procharger or HKS kit we'll need a pretty agressive set up.. By then the whine will be VERY LOUD and even at idle you can tell its VERY heavily modded.. also from then on you'll need high idle or have a poor idle to pull that charger.

Assumed to be safer.. its just as delicate as a finely tuned ST or TT kit.. the only reason we dont have as many SCs that blew a motor is because the OWNER cannot fck with it no boost controller no dumb shi1 lol..

Turbo,
Endless potential.. any engine any size can spool a turbo.. all you need is to build enough pressure. So yes turbo kits are easier to get to higher numbers but depending on your kit you may end up spending as much as upgrading a charger.

Greddy kit slaps on some giant turbos... vs lets say the JWT 530bb kit.. if I want to upgrade its about another $3,000-$4,000 in parts and labor for a bigger setup..

Both kits have advantages and disadvantages.. its how smart you are as a owner and a tunner that'll save you money.. If you want to upgrade in stages then try to buy parts that you wont need to sell.. Up until today I have almost everything you can think of to do on bodywork and suspension yet I still run a intake an exhaust as engine mod.. When I upgrade to the 530bb JWT kit I'll be adding a larger radiator and a decent size FMIC that I can use when I upgrade.. and when I do upgrade I'll only be paying for parts on the bigger Turbos since labor is going to be included with pulling the motor.. also same reason why I'm not doing the heads.

Built motor..
You do not need a built motor to safely run FI.. just know the limitation of a OEM motor.. most of the times guys blow up because they decide to push their luck and boost too high.. or throw on a poor ecu, boost controllers, kit with too big of a turbo, etc.. that'll cause spikes and other problems.. I bet you just about every blown stock VQ on FI is running either: too big of a turbo, too agressive of a tune, has a boost controller, a shi1ty piggyback / poorly tune ecu, or to keep it simple.. they arnt paying to play..

 

fck it.. powder coat the piping so its not polished.. run a stock bumper w/black intercoolers.. throw on the JWT POPCHARGER carb badge and call it a day.. they can run the number of they want just make it look like a cold air =P lol turbos arnt visable and are quieter then SC.. dont be dumb and run 18 gauges.. you dont need to know your exhaust temperature.. you dont need three fuel gauges.. spend money on molding it into the dash and making it look OEM.. =)

- Eric