How to correctly drive an MT.
#511
06-27-2012, 03:15 PM
True, the faster you let off the clutch, the better, but that really only works when the clutch and flywheel are spinning.
You don't have to release the clutch as slow as you make it seem, you just have to know the engagement point where the clutch actually catches.
Excessive wear happens when the clutch and flywheel are at different speeds, the greater the difference, the worse the wear. So think about what happens when you step on the gas before you engage the clutch.
You don't have to release the clutch as slow as you make it seem, you just have to know the engagement point where the clutch actually catches.
Excessive wear happens when the clutch and flywheel are at different speeds, the greater the difference, the worse the wear. So think about what happens when you step on the gas before you engage the clutch.
My point about adding throttle did not mean to just give throttle arbitrarily. It's a precise coordination of clutch and throttle. I know of some manual drivers who rev up to some rpm (1500/2k?), then start to release the clutch, what a way to burn it up!@#
If you're not adding any throttle at all, you will have to release it slower than if you were adding some (enough to keep it from stalling). This is where the extra wear will occur, compared to modulating clutch and throttle at the same time.
#515
06-28-2012, 04:29 PM
While you can do this, and it works, bear in mind you'll be a candidate for PCR - premature clutch replacement 
The idea is to MINIMIZE the amount of time the clutch is slipping. This is when the wear occurs. Get it engaged as quickly and smoothly as possible. Your feet should be synchronized.
The idea is to MINIMIZE the amount of time the clutch is slipping. This is when the wear occurs. Get it engaged as quickly and smoothly as possible. Your feet should be synchronized.
and if you want to launch it, hold the revs at 1500 and dump the clutch to the "sweet spot" while mashing the gas. Once it gets going, release the rest of the clutch. Our cars don't need high RPMs for launching.=)
#517
06-30-2012, 09:23 PM
On many forums I browse thru, (as im a enthusiast of all types of cars), there is such a misconception on how to drive a MT. All these talks of double-clutching, and how to correctly downshift, and riding the clutch a bit too much on take-off. Although the G's arent the easiest cars to drive in the planet, its not rocket science. We have high-engagement point clutches, but as with anything, you simply adapt to it. If you cant adapt, then you simply dont belong driving an MT.
For first, "double-clutching" is NOT NECESSARY AT ALL. These are synchronized transmissions, and whoever is doing this is honestly wasting their time. Double-clutching, to those who dont know, is the act of using the clutch twice in order to make a gear shift. So lets say your in 2nd gear, wanting to shift into third. You would clutch in, put the shifter in neutral, clutch out, match up RPM's, then re-clutch in, and then put it in 3rd, then re-clutch out. This is simply f*cking stupid. Whoever is doing this, is seriously wasting their time because this doesnt "save" your transmission from abuse nor will it make it last longer. This was done on cars WAYYYYY back in the day who did not have synchronized transmissions.
Take a peak at this video...Listen for the downshifts as he comes back to the camera...
http://youtube.com/watch?v=N18RmcuyV38
Do you hear his downshifts? You can CLEARLY HEAR, this incorrect downshift, and I addressed it with one of my boys that he is simply downshifting incorrectly. What you hear in this video, is this person simply putting the shifter into a lower gear and letting out the clutch very slowly, allowing the clutch to fry in order to catch up with the drivetrain. Although the slower you let your clutch the more you fry it, you will not feel such a sudden jerk/pull on the car, but it is still very bad for your clutch. Whoever this is, in this video, I feel sorry for your clutch at about 40-60K miles. When you do this, you are simply forcing your clutch and flywheel to match up with the RPM's in the previous gear.
The correct way to downshift, is to rev-match. Lets say youre in 5th gear, at about 3K rpms on the highway, and you need some more passing power. 4th would be nice...so in order to downshift CORRECTLY, the process goes as this...
1) 5th gear, 3K rpm...you want 4th...
2) You clutch-in, and AS YOUR MOVING THE SHIFTER INTO 4TH, you blip the throttle, matching the revs as to what they would be in 4th gear, approximately 4.5K rpm. Let the clutch-out. This must be done in one step. Not 2, not 3. One step. If done correctly, you should feel NOTHING, no tugging/pulling of the car, but simply a louder motor because of the higher revs. Granted, once you start practicing, you may miss it, by over-revving, or under-revving. If you over-rev, the car will lurch forward. If you under-rev, you will feel a tug. If you under-rev, thats when you can use the clutch slightly to smooth out the transition, but you should NEVER "use" the clutch 100% to do your downshift for you. As I said before, you are simply frying your clutch.
Heel-toe'ing is a different subject and it is honestly not needed in daily driving. Track use, yes, very efficient technique to have the best braking and best acceleration around corners, but for daily driving, it really isnt necessary at all.
Over-revving on a takeoff is also bad on your clutch. From a 1st gear takeoff from a light, you should NOT be higher than 2K rpm's while the clutch is halfway. If you are revving past 2K rpms on a take off , you are burning up your clutch. Too much over-revving and you decrease the life of your clutch. Once in a while, its fine, no disaster, just dont make it a habit. The sweetspot for a take-off is 1.5K rpms.
While sitting at a light, never have the clutch-in waiting until the light turns green. This is stupid and the only thing youre doing is tiring your left leg and eating up your throw-out bearing. If your sitting at a light, you simply leave it in neutral, and unless ur on a hill, you shouldnt have to have your feet on any pedal. Once you see that the adjacent light is turning yellow (your turn next), you clutch-in, 1st gear, and you take off. Simple.
Also, this is a manual transmission people, do not be afraid to play with your revs. If your in 5th, and want to downshift into 3rd, and you barely tap the throttle and YOU KNOW you didnt tap it enough for a smooth 3rd gear downshift, simply leave the clutch pushed in and play with your gas pedal, until you blip it to the perfect rpm, then let the clutch out smoothly. It is not a crime to play with your revs, do it all you want. Good lucky and happy shifting....
Edited with Summarized document.................
For first, "double-clutching" is NOT NECESSARY AT ALL. These are synchronized transmissions, and whoever is doing this is honestly wasting their time. Double-clutching, to those who dont know, is the act of using the clutch twice in order to make a gear shift. So lets say your in 2nd gear, wanting to shift into third. You would clutch in, put the shifter in neutral, clutch out, match up RPM's, then re-clutch in, and then put it in 3rd, then re-clutch out. This is simply f*cking stupid. Whoever is doing this, is seriously wasting their time because this doesnt "save" your transmission from abuse nor will it make it last longer. This was done on cars WAYYYYY back in the day who did not have synchronized transmissions.
Take a peak at this video...Listen for the downshifts as he comes back to the camera...
http://youtube.com/watch?v=N18RmcuyV38
Do you hear his downshifts? You can CLEARLY HEAR, this incorrect downshift, and I addressed it with one of my boys that he is simply downshifting incorrectly. What you hear in this video, is this person simply putting the shifter into a lower gear and letting out the clutch very slowly, allowing the clutch to fry in order to catch up with the drivetrain. Although the slower you let your clutch the more you fry it, you will not feel such a sudden jerk/pull on the car, but it is still very bad for your clutch. Whoever this is, in this video, I feel sorry for your clutch at about 40-60K miles. When you do this, you are simply forcing your clutch and flywheel to match up with the RPM's in the previous gear.
The correct way to downshift, is to rev-match. Lets say youre in 5th gear, at about 3K rpms on the highway, and you need some more passing power. 4th would be nice...so in order to downshift CORRECTLY, the process goes as this...
1) 5th gear, 3K rpm...you want 4th...
2) You clutch-in, and AS YOUR MOVING THE SHIFTER INTO 4TH, you blip the throttle, matching the revs as to what they would be in 4th gear, approximately 4.5K rpm. Let the clutch-out. This must be done in one step. Not 2, not 3. One step. If done correctly, you should feel NOTHING, no tugging/pulling of the car, but simply a louder motor because of the higher revs. Granted, once you start practicing, you may miss it, by over-revving, or under-revving. If you over-rev, the car will lurch forward. If you under-rev, you will feel a tug. If you under-rev, thats when you can use the clutch slightly to smooth out the transition, but you should NEVER "use" the clutch 100% to do your downshift for you. As I said before, you are simply frying your clutch.
Heel-toe'ing is a different subject and it is honestly not needed in daily driving. Track use, yes, very efficient technique to have the best braking and best acceleration around corners, but for daily driving, it really isnt necessary at all.
Over-revving on a takeoff is also bad on your clutch. From a 1st gear takeoff from a light, you should NOT be higher than 2K rpm's while the clutch is halfway. If you are revving past 2K rpms on a take off , you are burning up your clutch. Too much over-revving and you decrease the life of your clutch. Once in a while, its fine, no disaster, just dont make it a habit. The sweetspot for a take-off is 1.5K rpms.
While sitting at a light, never have the clutch-in waiting until the light turns green. This is stupid and the only thing youre doing is tiring your left leg and eating up your throw-out bearing. If your sitting at a light, you simply leave it in neutral, and unless ur on a hill, you shouldnt have to have your feet on any pedal. Once you see that the adjacent light is turning yellow (your turn next), you clutch-in, 1st gear, and you take off. Simple.
Also, this is a manual transmission people, do not be afraid to play with your revs. If your in 5th, and want to downshift into 3rd, and you barely tap the throttle and YOU KNOW you didnt tap it enough for a smooth 3rd gear downshift, simply leave the clutch pushed in and play with your gas pedal, until you blip it to the perfect rpm, then let the clutch out smoothly. It is not a crime to play with your revs, do it all you want. Good lucky and happy shifting....
Edited with Summarized document.................
i'm just curious, if you consider heel-toe not necessary for daily driving, how do you make turns? are you in 3rd (approach turn); clutch pedal in; turn; downshift and take off?
thanks in advance!
#518
07-01-2012, 02:37 PM
I agree with most of the info/tips you give in this and think it's quite important for people to know so they can get the most our of their cars. however, regarding the heel-toe blurb, i heel-toe all the time. i simply feel safer when i'm in the appropriate gear for the appropriate situation.
i'm just curious, if you consider heel-toe not necessary for daily driving, how do you make turns? are you in 3rd (approach turn); clutch pedal in; turn; downshift and take off?
thanks in advance!
i'm just curious, if you consider heel-toe not necessary for daily driving, how do you make turns? are you in 3rd (approach turn); clutch pedal in; turn; downshift and take off?
thanks in advance!
#519
07-01-2012, 03:00 PM
Heel and toe is not necessary for daily driving. The whole point of heel and toe is to properly downshift to get into the proper gear to keep the revs up so you will have power on the way out of the turn.
When you want to get through a turn as fast and quick as possible, you want to late brake into the turn and downshift using heel and toe at the same time, hit the apex, and stomp on that gas pedal once you've hit the exit.
For daily driving when you aren't trying to hit that turn as fast as possible, you can take your time and just rev-match like dvs_g says.
#520
07-01-2012, 06:32 PM
I agree with most of the info/tips you give in this and think it's quite important for people to know so they can get the most our of their cars. however, regarding the heel-toe blurb, i heel-toe all the time. i simply feel safer when i'm in the appropriate gear for the appropriate situation.
i'm just curious, if you consider heel-toe not necessary for daily driving, how do you make turns? are you in 3rd (approach turn); clutch pedal in; turn; downshift and take off?
thanks in advance!
i'm just curious, if you consider heel-toe not necessary for daily driving, how do you make turns? are you in 3rd (approach turn); clutch pedal in; turn; downshift and take off?
thanks in advance!
I find it much easier to heel-toe under pretty hard braking and when you're rev-ing to like 6krpm. It just seems to me that while i'm braking normally on the street and just want to downshift to go from like 1.7k rpm to like 2.5k rpm for city driving, pretty aggravating to heel-toe, hard to do it smoothly, and feels like pointless wear. The VQ has so much torque, if I'm in third going into a corner on the street, usually i'll just leave it there and not shift at all...
#521
07-02-2012, 04:25 AM
I feel like heel-toeing for daily driving is so much of a pain and puts a lot of wear on the clutch. (not to say i don't do it....)
I find it much easier to heel-toe under pretty hard braking and when you're rev-ing to like 6krpm. It just seems to me that while i'm braking normally on the street and just want to downshift to go from like 1.7k rpm to like 2.5k rpm for city driving, pretty aggravating to heel-toe, hard to do it smoothly, and feels like pointless wear. The VQ has so much torque, if I'm in third going into a corner on the street, usually i'll just leave it there and not shift at all...
I find it much easier to heel-toe under pretty hard braking and when you're rev-ing to like 6krpm. It just seems to me that while i'm braking normally on the street and just want to downshift to go from like 1.7k rpm to like 2.5k rpm for city driving, pretty aggravating to heel-toe, hard to do it smoothly, and feels like pointless wear. The VQ has so much torque, if I'm in third going into a corner on the street, usually i'll just leave it there and not shift at all...
#522
07-02-2012, 02:51 PM
Obviously. I am saying when you're only pressing in the brake pedal 10%, and you are trying to increase your revs by about 1k, you're more likely to overshoot your gas or brakes than anything else if you heel-toe on daily driving. There's no problem in daily driving to coast through most of the turn, then rev match after you get off your brakes.
#523
09-19-2012, 09:21 PM
Traded in my AT rsx for MT 350z. First two days of owning the car I killed it several times. Ive been driving it for 3 weeks but after reading this I think I am reving too high when moving from a stop. Especially on inclines. Ugh my poor clutch.....
EDIT: I will admit I haven't read all 35 pages of this thread so this may be redundant. I find it difficult to reverse short distances without riding the clutch/over reving. I find that I almost NEVER fully let off the clutch in reverse. So it goes clutch to the floor, put it in reverse, clutch half engaged, give it some gas to start rolling the car then depress the clutch to the floor, repeat once or twice when parking. Any advice?
EDIT: I will admit I haven't read all 35 pages of this thread so this may be redundant. I find it difficult to reverse short distances without riding the clutch/over reving. I find that I almost NEVER fully let off the clutch in reverse. So it goes clutch to the floor, put it in reverse, clutch half engaged, give it some gas to start rolling the car then depress the clutch to the floor, repeat once or twice when parking. Any advice?
Last edited by Kingdom; 09-19-2012 at 09:55 PM.
#524
09-19-2012, 10:06 PM
I rarely let out the clutch in reverse. I just give it a "bump" to get the car moving and then push it back in.
If you are reving more than 1000-1500 to do a normal start, yes it too fast. It just takes practice in knowing how much gas to clutch engagement to use.
Some of the best practice you get, go to a large parking lot that is not used on Sunday. Practice taking off in first WITHOUT TOUCHING THE GAS AT ALL! This will teach you clutch engagement. The VQ motor has plenty of Torque to move the car without using the gas. Once you get that down, the rest will be easy.
If you are reving more than 1000-1500 to do a normal start, yes it too fast. It just takes practice in knowing how much gas to clutch engagement to use.
Some of the best practice you get, go to a large parking lot that is not used on Sunday. Practice taking off in first WITHOUT TOUCHING THE GAS AT ALL! This will teach you clutch engagement. The VQ motor has plenty of Torque to move the car without using the gas. Once you get that down, the rest will be easy.
#525
09-19-2012, 10:39 PM
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