G35 Sedan vs. Leg GT Ltd.
#141
08-02-2004, 10:36 PM
Re: G35 Sedan vs. Leg GT Ltd.
Earlier in the post someone mentioned
'Subaru' shouldn't even be mentioned in the same sentence as Infiniti (or Lexus or BMW or Mercedes)!
Check this article out
http://motoring.iafrica.com/carsinac...out/291844.htm
Regards
John
'Subaru' shouldn't even be mentioned in the same sentence as Infiniti (or Lexus or BMW or Mercedes)!
Check this article out
http://motoring.iafrica.com/carsinac...out/291844.htm
Regards
John
#142
08-02-2004, 10:44 PM
#143
08-02-2004, 10:45 PM
Re: G35 Sedan vs. Leg GT Ltd.
Very nice, but bug off already ;-). I just checked your site's thread on this as well...you must be so bored on your Subie site that you feel it's so necessary to rehash this on our site. We all know you're doing this just to get a rise out of annoying us...
from your post on your site -- " I know this is an old thread...but I just had to do it...There should be a new picture on the G35 owner thread. I wonder what their response will be?"
Don't be a loser...it's unnecessary, childish, and makes you look stupid. Your Subie buddies from your site like scubie02 don't resort to this garbage. We don't care about this...you guys do. That's why we stopped posting to this thread a while ago. We have another section called "Other Cars" which discussion on other cars can be tossed around...feel free to post the pics there. But, if people wanted more info on the your precious Subie, they'd probably go to the Subaru Web site and other sites as well; not to G35Driver.com.
Obviously, you got a reaction out of me (which is probably what you wanted anyhow ;-); most probably won't even reply b/c it's just not worth their time and energy. Ever notice how (although I read my name trashed many times on your site...I just think it's hysterical actually) that I don't feel it necessary to respond on your site? I've never posted on your site nor would I have the inclination to do so, b/c I don't drive a Subaru Legacy GT. However, when you come here to G35Driver.com just to be an instigator, that's a different story.
It's not that I mind the pics; it's just that I think this discussion should be in the "Other Cars" section since we're done talking about the 'Subie vs. G35' even if you're not.
2004.5 G35-S 5AT Black/Willow - Prem, R. Spoiler, Navi, Infiniti Sport Wheels, Alum Pedals, Dark Tint, Z Tube, K&N Filter<P ID="edit"><FONT class="small"><EM>Edited by bsgoren on 08/02/04 08:15 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
from your post on your site -- " I know this is an old thread...but I just had to do it...There should be a new picture on the G35 owner thread. I wonder what their response will be?"
Don't be a loser...it's unnecessary, childish, and makes you look stupid. Your Subie buddies from your site like scubie02 don't resort to this garbage. We don't care about this...you guys do. That's why we stopped posting to this thread a while ago. We have another section called "Other Cars" which discussion on other cars can be tossed around...feel free to post the pics there. But, if people wanted more info on the your precious Subie, they'd probably go to the Subaru Web site and other sites as well; not to G35Driver.com.
Obviously, you got a reaction out of me (which is probably what you wanted anyhow ;-); most probably won't even reply b/c it's just not worth their time and energy. Ever notice how (although I read my name trashed many times on your site...I just think it's hysterical actually) that I don't feel it necessary to respond on your site? I've never posted on your site nor would I have the inclination to do so, b/c I don't drive a Subaru Legacy GT. However, when you come here to G35Driver.com just to be an instigator, that's a different story.
It's not that I mind the pics; it's just that I think this discussion should be in the "Other Cars" section since we're done talking about the 'Subie vs. G35' even if you're not.
2004.5 G35-S 5AT Black/Willow - Prem, R. Spoiler, Navi, Infiniti Sport Wheels, Alum Pedals, Dark Tint, Z Tube, K&N Filter<P ID="edit"><FONT class="small"><EM>Edited by bsgoren on 08/02/04 08:15 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
#144
08-02-2004, 11:19 PM
Re: G35 Sedan vs. Leg GT Ltd.
Rossiski,
I've been looking at the 2005 Subaru Outback and Legacy as a replacement for my 2002 Audi A4 (V6, 6MT). In the last two weeks, I started looking at the G35, both the Sedan and Coupe.
In general, I think the G35 coupe looks better than the Legacy and the G35 sedan looks better than the G35 coupe. Great looking cars! The quality of the G35 exterior is very nice and the interior is decent (with the 2005 G35 supposed to be a major interior upgrade).
And the Infiniti dealership is head and shoulders above the Subaru.
So last weekend, I finally had a chance to drive the G35 - coupe and 2WD sedan. I expected to love the coupe and like the sedan. Turns out that I thought the coupe was OK and the sedan was very nice. But a few things bothered me...
The G35's engine had a very nice sound, but the engine noise was intrusive during normal driving. I.e, it was ALWAYS there, even when cruising on the interstate. Kind of a dull rumble.
G35 handled very nicely, the sedan felt more "tossable" than the coupe. (I don't know why.) But both felt a little "heavy". I.e., they actually felt larger than they are.
And the ride was pretty good, but it was a bit harsh in spots. You could feel rough pavement.
So I headed back home. But on the way, I decided to give the Subaru one last look. I drove a GT Limited Wagon.
Now here's where it gets a bit odd...
I decided that the Subaru rode and handled better than the G35! The ride was smoother, definitely not a harsh. And the Legacy was MUCH more "tossable". You could just throw it into a corner and floor it with confidence (probably due to the AWD, mostly). Unlike the G35, the Legacy "drove" SMALLER than it was.
When I pushed the G35, it felt nice. But you can feel the speed. With the Legacy, if felt GREAT! I had it up to a little past 90 and there was NO difference between 60 and 90. It likes to run. The G35 is a very nice car to drive, but the Legacy is a very FUN car to drive.
And the interior ergonomics are actually better. With the G35, I found that I had to squint to see the radio station and the heat/AC settings. Exterior and interior temps were especially difficult to read in the G35. For some reason, most of the Legacy controls are easier to use than the G35. Other than the obvious difference in display readability, I don't know why I liked the G35's controls better. And the G35 has a fair amount of road noise and thump, especially when you hit lane markers on the interstate. The Legacy hits the same markers, and generates less noise and harshness.
And obviously, the Legacy Wagon has far higher utility value than the G35 sedan. Just fold down the Legacy seats and toss in your "stuff". The G35 follows standard Japanese "premium" car practice of NOT offering a fold down seat in sedans. (The Subaru sedan has the same failing.)
To buy a car to show my friends, to look at, or just to sit in, I'd choose the G35 in a flat minute. Much nicer looking inside and out. But as a car to DRIVE, the Legacy's the superior car. All of this is IMO, of course.
Regards,
Dan.
I've been looking at the 2005 Subaru Outback and Legacy as a replacement for my 2002 Audi A4 (V6, 6MT). In the last two weeks, I started looking at the G35, both the Sedan and Coupe.
In general, I think the G35 coupe looks better than the Legacy and the G35 sedan looks better than the G35 coupe. Great looking cars! The quality of the G35 exterior is very nice and the interior is decent (with the 2005 G35 supposed to be a major interior upgrade).
And the Infiniti dealership is head and shoulders above the Subaru.
So last weekend, I finally had a chance to drive the G35 - coupe and 2WD sedan. I expected to love the coupe and like the sedan. Turns out that I thought the coupe was OK and the sedan was very nice. But a few things bothered me...
The G35's engine had a very nice sound, but the engine noise was intrusive during normal driving. I.e, it was ALWAYS there, even when cruising on the interstate. Kind of a dull rumble.
G35 handled very nicely, the sedan felt more "tossable" than the coupe. (I don't know why.) But both felt a little "heavy". I.e., they actually felt larger than they are.
And the ride was pretty good, but it was a bit harsh in spots. You could feel rough pavement.
So I headed back home. But on the way, I decided to give the Subaru one last look. I drove a GT Limited Wagon.
Now here's where it gets a bit odd...
I decided that the Subaru rode and handled better than the G35! The ride was smoother, definitely not a harsh. And the Legacy was MUCH more "tossable". You could just throw it into a corner and floor it with confidence (probably due to the AWD, mostly). Unlike the G35, the Legacy "drove" SMALLER than it was.
When I pushed the G35, it felt nice. But you can feel the speed. With the Legacy, if felt GREAT! I had it up to a little past 90 and there was NO difference between 60 and 90. It likes to run. The G35 is a very nice car to drive, but the Legacy is a very FUN car to drive.
And the interior ergonomics are actually better. With the G35, I found that I had to squint to see the radio station and the heat/AC settings. Exterior and interior temps were especially difficult to read in the G35. For some reason, most of the Legacy controls are easier to use than the G35. Other than the obvious difference in display readability, I don't know why I liked the G35's controls better. And the G35 has a fair amount of road noise and thump, especially when you hit lane markers on the interstate. The Legacy hits the same markers, and generates less noise and harshness.
And obviously, the Legacy Wagon has far higher utility value than the G35 sedan. Just fold down the Legacy seats and toss in your "stuff". The G35 follows standard Japanese "premium" car practice of NOT offering a fold down seat in sedans. (The Subaru sedan has the same failing.)
To buy a car to show my friends, to look at, or just to sit in, I'd choose the G35 in a flat minute. Much nicer looking inside and out. But as a car to DRIVE, the Legacy's the superior car. All of this is IMO, of course.
Regards,
Dan.
#145
08-03-2004, 08:42 AM
#146
08-03-2004, 10:17 PM
Re: G35 Sedan vs. Leg GT Ltd.
Don't move this discussion just yet. In looking for a new vehicle I saw this thread. Here is a short story of mine: Where I live there is a railroad track cross half way in a sharp turn. This has always been the most scary place since everytime I drive over the tracks my Nissan steps sideways. Could hardly go beyond 40MPH. Tested drove the Legacy at 40MPH on the turn felt extremely stable. Made a U turn, built some speed and drove through at 50 MPH, still rock solid. Again at 60MPH, felt a slight nervous. By now I am completely sold by the Subaru's AWD handling.
Brothers, you should all trade-in your cars for this amazing vehicle. Life is short. This is my 2 cents. Thanks for reading/sharing.
Brothers, you should all trade-in your cars for this amazing vehicle. Life is short. This is my 2 cents. Thanks for reading/sharing.
#147
08-03-2004, 11:22 PM
Re: G35 Sedan vs. Leg GT Ltd.
Sorry...as if this hasn't been said before, but the Subaru doesn't have a Navi system (which I personally need for my business travels as my G35 is my co. car), HID headlights, XM/Sirius Sat Radio (and a somewhat decent stereo system I might add), HomeLink, Memory Seats, Tire Pressure Monitoring System, (Intelligent Key System option for '05; we have it in our '03 Infiniti FX35 and love it...it's my wife's favorite feature!!!) and a few other ammenities you would expect to find on a car trying to compete in the near-lux or lux category. I feel very safe at all speeds in my G35; it's very stable, very agile, quiet (and a little mean sounding with the Z tube & WOT ;-), has airbags all around, and received good crash test ratings.
However, if all these "extras" aren't important to you, then by all means, go for it. I'm not sure how the G35 would do in your "railroad track cross corner" test, but you could always try it.
Also, I've noticed that many of the Subies who now drive this '05 Legacy GT came out of similar cars like other Subies (especially the WRX and Sti), VW's, some GM cars, Fords, Mitsubishi's, etc. and maybe their expectations (as far as luxury and technology ammenities are concerned) just aren't as high as those who came out of Lexus, BMW, MB, Infiniti, and others in the near-lux and lux category. Some view their cars as more than just a high performance machine; some like a nice balance of performance, luxury, and technology. It's good to be fast (and stable), but some like their car to be fast and stable with the interior conveniences that make your drive a little more enjoyable. Now, if Subaru adds these extra ammenities in future years, then 1. the price will surely increase (possibly beyond it's intended price point) and 2. according to AutoWeek and others, they still may face the brand perception issue of being just under the "near luxury" category (i.e. -- people may ask themselves why get a Subaru for the same price as a Lexus, Infiniti, BMW, MB, etc.?)...and this is just my $0.02. ;-)
2004.5 G35-S 5AT Black/Willow - Prem, R. Spoiler, Navi, Infiniti Sport Wheels, Alum Pedals, Dark Tint, Z Tube, K&N Filter<P ID="edit"><FONT class="small"><EM>Edited by bsgoren on 08/03/04 08:26 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
However, if all these "extras" aren't important to you, then by all means, go for it. I'm not sure how the G35 would do in your "railroad track cross corner" test, but you could always try it.
Also, I've noticed that many of the Subies who now drive this '05 Legacy GT came out of similar cars like other Subies (especially the WRX and Sti), VW's, some GM cars, Fords, Mitsubishi's, etc. and maybe their expectations (as far as luxury and technology ammenities are concerned) just aren't as high as those who came out of Lexus, BMW, MB, Infiniti, and others in the near-lux and lux category. Some view their cars as more than just a high performance machine; some like a nice balance of performance, luxury, and technology. It's good to be fast (and stable), but some like their car to be fast and stable with the interior conveniences that make your drive a little more enjoyable. Now, if Subaru adds these extra ammenities in future years, then 1. the price will surely increase (possibly beyond it's intended price point) and 2. according to AutoWeek and others, they still may face the brand perception issue of being just under the "near luxury" category (i.e. -- people may ask themselves why get a Subaru for the same price as a Lexus, Infiniti, BMW, MB, etc.?)...and this is just my $0.02. ;-)
2004.5 G35-S 5AT Black/Willow - Prem, R. Spoiler, Navi, Infiniti Sport Wheels, Alum Pedals, Dark Tint, Z Tube, K&N Filter<P ID="edit"><FONT class="small"><EM>Edited by bsgoren on 08/03/04 08:26 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
#148
08-04-2004, 09:00 AM
#149
08-04-2004, 09:49 AM
Re: G35 Sedan vs. Leg GT Ltd.
Very good post.
It emphasizes that a car's specific combination of features and benefits are what is important. If they meet a person's needs, then that's the car for them. If not, look elsewhere.
Regarding the G35 vs Subie amenities, I agree with many of your points. Many Subie owners and prospective Subie owners have complained about the lack of HID headlights, Satellite radio and a navigation system. Frankly, I'd pay extra for HID and a Satellite radio.
Regarding the Tire Pressure Monitoring system... To be precise, it IS available on one or two of the Outbacks, but not generally available on all Subies (including the Legacy GT) which I'm looking at.
Regarding the Legacy radio/stereo, I think it is only "fair". However, they have a 13 speaker MacIntosh version in Japan and Australia that is supposed to be superb.
You are correct that many Legacy GT drivers are previously owned "lower-end" cars. In my case however, my last four cars where an '88 Acura Legend Coupe, '97 Lexus ES300, '99 Volvo S80 and '02 Audi A4 (V6 6MT, leather, yada, yada). I've been buying entry-level luxury cars for a while. From that perspective and in my opinion...
Only the 2005 G35 meets my amenity expections. This assumes that the 2005 description of changes, and exterior and interior pictures are correct. For egonomics and quality, my '99 Volvo S80 T6 was superior to all of the cars that we are discussing, including the G35. From a looks standpoint, my '02 Audi A4 is FAR better looking inside than almost any other car under about $45,000.
Frankly, I've grown tired of owning cars that looked good but had mediocre utility value (Lexus and Acura), were unreliable (Volvo) or extremely, horribly unreliable (Audi). The Acura handled OK, but was hampered by a soft body and small tires. The Lexus handled abysmally. Both the Acura and the Lexus had very limited utility value (small and no fold down seats). The Volvo's suspension and FWD couldn't handle the fantastic turbo engine. The Audi is heavy and somewhat ponderous.
I'd rate the OVERALL quality of the G35 and Legacy as about equal. The G35 looks better, but the Legacy feels better. And, given the Legacy's advanced AWD, use of aluminum, and its excellent handling, I'd say the Legacy was the better engineered car. The Legacy comes as close to a BMW as any car I've ever driven. Finally, the Legacy Wagon can easily handle my golf clubs, telescopes, camera equipment, bicycles and all the gardening "stuff" that I want to toss into it.
So it's a tough choice. I'm used to the amenity level of the G35 or higher. I'd love to have a G35 with the ride, handling, quietness, and utility of the Subaru Legacy. Or, a Legacy Wagon with the amenities of the G35. It isn't available. We all have our priorities and the exact car to meet them will differ from person to person. We just try to get the best balance for our needs.
Best regards,
Dan.
It emphasizes that a car's specific combination of features and benefits are what is important. If they meet a person's needs, then that's the car for them. If not, look elsewhere.
Regarding the G35 vs Subie amenities, I agree with many of your points. Many Subie owners and prospective Subie owners have complained about the lack of HID headlights, Satellite radio and a navigation system. Frankly, I'd pay extra for HID and a Satellite radio.
Regarding the Tire Pressure Monitoring system... To be precise, it IS available on one or two of the Outbacks, but not generally available on all Subies (including the Legacy GT) which I'm looking at.
Regarding the Legacy radio/stereo, I think it is only "fair". However, they have a 13 speaker MacIntosh version in Japan and Australia that is supposed to be superb.
You are correct that many Legacy GT drivers are previously owned "lower-end" cars. In my case however, my last four cars where an '88 Acura Legend Coupe, '97 Lexus ES300, '99 Volvo S80 and '02 Audi A4 (V6 6MT, leather, yada, yada). I've been buying entry-level luxury cars for a while. From that perspective and in my opinion...
Only the 2005 G35 meets my amenity expections. This assumes that the 2005 description of changes, and exterior and interior pictures are correct. For egonomics and quality, my '99 Volvo S80 T6 was superior to all of the cars that we are discussing, including the G35. From a looks standpoint, my '02 Audi A4 is FAR better looking inside than almost any other car under about $45,000.
Frankly, I've grown tired of owning cars that looked good but had mediocre utility value (Lexus and Acura), were unreliable (Volvo) or extremely, horribly unreliable (Audi). The Acura handled OK, but was hampered by a soft body and small tires. The Lexus handled abysmally. Both the Acura and the Lexus had very limited utility value (small and no fold down seats). The Volvo's suspension and FWD couldn't handle the fantastic turbo engine. The Audi is heavy and somewhat ponderous.
I'd rate the OVERALL quality of the G35 and Legacy as about equal. The G35 looks better, but the Legacy feels better. And, given the Legacy's advanced AWD, use of aluminum, and its excellent handling, I'd say the Legacy was the better engineered car. The Legacy comes as close to a BMW as any car I've ever driven. Finally, the Legacy Wagon can easily handle my golf clubs, telescopes, camera equipment, bicycles and all the gardening "stuff" that I want to toss into it.
So it's a tough choice. I'm used to the amenity level of the G35 or higher. I'd love to have a G35 with the ride, handling, quietness, and utility of the Subaru Legacy. Or, a Legacy Wagon with the amenities of the G35. It isn't available. We all have our priorities and the exact car to meet them will differ from person to person. We just try to get the best balance for our needs.
Best regards,
Dan.
#150
08-04-2004, 09:46 PM
Re: G35 Sedan vs. Leg GT Ltd.
We have been discuss two different things. You are talking about name recognition. I was talking driving itself. No wonder we can't agree. Lets talk name.
Being a Infinity, G35 has a better name, or at least in a more expensive class than Legacy GT. However, it is still in the middle of car ranks. It is my position that if you want name recognition (truely important), get the top of the class. If you don't have enough money, don't do it. Never settle for the middle. It gets you nowhere. Getting the "near luxury" is actually worse than not getting it, because everyone now knows you don't have (want to spend) the money for the tops. See what I am saying? Your financial situation is expsoed in a limited way. I have a few very whelthy friends who will drive used pick-ups, or a subaru to look "normal." But they won't get into something like a G35 (no flame). It is not "rice" enough. Or they will just drive their RR, MB, etc. To be honest with you, I am thinking of getting a 2005 red Corvette (for Class). This will set me back. I will like to get the Legacy GT as a rice car for driving fun. I recommend test drive it. It is no Corvette but it is fun. Life is short.
Being a Infinity, G35 has a better name, or at least in a more expensive class than Legacy GT. However, it is still in the middle of car ranks. It is my position that if you want name recognition (truely important), get the top of the class. If you don't have enough money, don't do it. Never settle for the middle. It gets you nowhere. Getting the "near luxury" is actually worse than not getting it, because everyone now knows you don't have (want to spend) the money for the tops. See what I am saying? Your financial situation is expsoed in a limited way. I have a few very whelthy friends who will drive used pick-ups, or a subaru to look "normal." But they won't get into something like a G35 (no flame). It is not "rice" enough. Or they will just drive their RR, MB, etc. To be honest with you, I am thinking of getting a 2005 red Corvette (for Class). This will set me back. I will like to get the Legacy GT as a rice car for driving fun. I recommend test drive it. It is no Corvette but it is fun. Life is short.