But how many people are like you in the market for the Phaeton? I bet the "majority" of people buying that level of car don't want to spend $90k to have the same badge on their car as the guy in the Beetle to their right at the stoplight. Most want a "premium" brand like BMW, Mercedes, Lexus, Infititi, Subaru... ;-)

If you're in control, you're not driving fast enough -- Parnelli Jones

 

I'm not like most people tho

2003.5 DP 5AT Sedan (E-thing but Nav)
14.2 @ 97.18
Z-Tube
K&N Drop In & Airbox Mod
10 Wire Hyper-Ground
Crawford Plenum (V4)
UR Crank Pulley
Polk EX-3500 Tweeters/Shock Sensor/H-Liner

 

Re: SixFive -

"PS EVERYONE and thier mom is going upscale - ALL consumers are going upscale according to market research. People want to feel elite even if they know they are not and car makers try to cater to this emotion. VW is going upscale...hell they all are shooting for BMW even infiniti..but BMW is raising the bar and so are the consumers. Late reaction to the same strategy everyone wants to implement. The market is mature and no one is really any better of with all makers relative in context of higher expectations from the consumer. "

One of the most overlooked things about all this comparo stuff between the Subaru Legacy GT and the Infiniti G35 is that if the Legacy GT had the more upscale std. equip. and options the G35 has -- i.e. HID lights, a somewhat decent 222w stereo (although our Bose 6-disc in-dash stereo w/o midrange control is debateable but still much better than the garbage stereo that comes in the Legacy GT), optional Navi system, XM/Sirius Sat radio, auto up/down windows (all 4), driver's seat memory, VDC, reclining rear seats, soon to be for '05 - Intelligent Key System, etc., the Subie would probably very close to or at the same price level as the Infiniti G35. It's quite obvious they left those features out to bring the price level to under $30k; otherwise, they'd be competing for a whole new group of buyers who expect these features (to have or at least be available) in our cars (unless Subaru could somehow significantly undercut all other car brands prices for these std. and optional features).

So, if they add those features in future years, it could come down to...which do you want for roughly the same price (not that they're all close performance wise by any means -- just talking near-lux status, features, & ammenities in a sports sedan) -- a BMW 3 Series, an Infiniti G35, an Acura TL, an Audi A4, a MB C Class, a Lexus IS (or ES), a Subaru Legacy GT, and who knows what else (Nissan Maxima, Ford Futura/Five Hundred, etc.)? Yes, Subaru has an uphill battle alright. But, they'll always have the die-hard Subie fans out there with a few more that might get on their bandwagon from a better strategy focused on changing perceptions. ;-)



2004.5 G35-S 5AT Black/Willow - Prem, R. Spoiler, Navi, Infiniti Sport Wheels, Alum Pedals, Dark Tint, Z Tube, K&N Filter<P ID="edit"><FONT class="small"><EM>Edited by bsgoren on 07/14/04 06:24 PM.</EM></FONT></P>

 

Just out of curiosity, since I keep hearing how much better Infiniti's quality is than Subaru's, I went to the office of defects investigation website (a government site--no "how do you FEEL about your car?" JD Pwers crap, but cold hard facts). For the 2004 G35 the number of Technical Service Bulletins was 13. Since the Legacy in question is new, I looked up the Impreza--not just the wrx's, but all impreza's--number of TSB's--1. Hmm, that seems odd. Well, lets look up the old Legacy, that must be a fluke. Numer of TSB's--5. Gosh, that's weird, Infiniti's are wayyyy more reliable than cheap old subaru's...

 

FWIW, my '02 WRX run like a champ for 40,000 miles without so much as a hiccup. Rally design bloodlines have their advantages.

'04 6MT Sport Sedan

UR crank pulley
Helix test pipes
G35C midpipe
Z intake tube
Nismo Sport "dry" air filter
Nismo grounding kit
RS*R Z33 springs
Hawk HPS brake pads
Motul 600 RBF

 

At least Infiniti provides a good warranty of 4 yrs/60k mi. as good or better than all those in it's class; I believe your warranty is 3 yrs/36k mi. just like all those in it's class. If Subaru wants to play with the big boys, then Subaru should have a big boy warranty to match. I believe most Subie owners would agree a better warranty is needed to move up on the totem pole.

btw - In the real world tests as you put it, Infiniti far exceeds BMW and MB in reliability...just ask a few BMW and MB owners who've had their cars in the shop a lot. My brothers are 2 of them; not that they still don't like BMW and MB, just that they still have the hassle of bringing their cars in for service a lot.

And, like Gov't tests are the best anyway; tell that to all the people who now want to hear about real world crash tests not from the gov't but from the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety (IIHS).



2004.5 G35-S 5AT Black/Willow - Prem, R. Spoiler, Navi, Infiniti Sport Wheels, Alum Pedals, Dark Tint, Z Tube, K&N Filter<P ID="edit"><FONT class="small"><EM>Edited by bsgoren on 07/15/04 06:43 AM.</EM></FONT></P>

 

Are they really arguing reliability...this is hopeless

2003.5 DP 5AT Sedan (E-thing but Nav)
14.2 @ 97.18
Z-Tube
K&N Drop In & Airbox Mod
10 Wire Hyper-Ground
Crawford Plenum (V4)
UR Crank Pulley
Polk EX-3500 Tweeters/Shock Sensor/H-Liner

 

Admin - PLEASE SHUT THIS DOWN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Both Subaru and Infiniti are POS, compared to Hyundai in terms of warranty!!!

BTW - I like my G!!


03.5 G35S 5AT - Desert Platinum/Graphite/350Z Tube/Clear corners/HG kit/20% Tint

 

"btw - In the real world tests as you put it, Infiniti far exceeds BMW and MB in reliability...just ask a few BMW and MB owners who've had their cars in the shop a lot. My brothers are 2 of them; not that they still don't like BMW and MB"

Thats why I always say that JD Powers is a totally useless survey. It reports on "owner satisfaction" with their vehicle after 3 months of ownership. But owners of different brands might be more or less "satisfied", regardless of how many problems they have with the vehicle. As you said, I have witnessed this first hand w/ MB and Porsche owners. When I owned my VW the dealer also sold MB and Porsche. Every time I was in for service the owners of those cars would be there too, but they still always thought their cars were great, even if there was something wrong with them. The owners of some marques have different expecttions from their vehicles. The owners of some brands might be expecting a very reliable vehicle, and be pretty disgusted if its not, and thus JD Powers numbers for them woud show less satisfaction. But owners from say some really cheap brand might not expect as much--either because its cheap, or its their first new car--who knows, and they are still satisfied. Likewise owners of MB and such--they are still happy, because it was taken care of, and they expect some "gremlins" apparently--price of premier ownership in their minds. Thats why you find brands that Consumer Reports rates as unreliable that strangely have very good JD Powers numbers.

 

"At least Infiniti provides a good warranty of 4 yrs/60k mi. as good or better than all those in it's class; I believe your warranty is 3 yrs/36k mi. just like all those in it's class. If Subaru wants to play with the big boys, then Subaru should have a big boy warranty to match."

I got 3 yrs/36k miles free service/maintenance--does that count for anything...

Oh, and I get free tires for life as long as I get my service done there (which obviously I will for the first three years/36k miles anyway).

 

Good point. I believe Lexus and Toyota usually have some of the highest reliability and customer satisfaction ratings in past years. These are typically very trouble-free, reliable cars; much more so than Honda and other brands (and Honda used to be King of Reliability). We almost never had 1 problem with any of our Lexus vehicles. So far, so good with my Infiniti G35 and FX35, except for a couple of minor issues; I can't complain too much, but I feel better having a good, long warranty just in case.



2004.5 G35-S 5AT Black/Willow - Prem, R. Spoiler, Navi, Infiniti Sport Wheels, Alum Pedals, Dark Tint, Z Tube, K&N Filter

 

6-5 said "But I'm not like most people tho"

And that's the point... I think VW will need to sell more than a handful of Phaeton's to make it a success. I just don't understand their logic on that one...

If you're in control, you're not driving fast enough -- Parnelli Jones

 

scubie02:

Just shut the hell up and go home. Why do you insist on hanging around this website, constantly needling everybody - nobody gives a crap about you and your Subaru. Do you have a life or a job? You are so obssessed with this crap - get over it!

You are just like those women who keep trying to get into the golf courses and clubs that are exclusive to men - you're not a member of our fraternity, so quit hanging around, you wannabe. We don't go to your "Subie" website and try to shove our "G"s down your throat - so if your car is so superior, why can't you just live with that and quit trying to shove your crap down our throats. WE ARE NOT INTERESTED! Methinks you doth protest too much - who are you trying to convince, yourself?

I have never been to a Subaru website, and I, like most everybody on this website, don't CARE about your Subaru. I'd sure hate to be someone who you were romantically interested in - you're like a stalker - you just won't go away, even when it's clear you are not wanted. This is not your sandbox. Go home, and shut the hell up!!

Sport Sedan Fan - 2004 6MT Sedan
Sport/Navigation/Premium/Aero; "Invisiguard" Bra, Madico Onyx Tint
Obsidian Black/Graphite & "Titanium"
SHE'S SILVER & BLACK - GO RAIDERS!

 

When is the last time you looked at the long term ownership survery by brand...Infiniti was #1 last year

2003.5 DP 5AT Sedan (E-thing but Nav)
14.2 @ 97.18
Z-Tube
K&N Drop In & Airbox Mod
10 Wire Hyper-Ground
Crawford Plenum (V4)
UR Crank Pulley
Polk EX-3500 Tweeters/Shock Sensor/H-Liner

 

Gosh, dbarnes, maybe you better take another Prozac. I didn't come here trying to compare my car to yours--this thread was pointed out on another site as some of you folks comparing your car to OURS. Since there was obviously alot of misinformation--people saying things about the legacy who had obviously never even SEEN one, let alone having driven one--I chimed in. Now me, I'm an enthusiast in general and am a member of numerous car sites. You obviously are not this type of enthusiast, since by your own account you only go to your own site. As it happens, I am not really a subaru fanatic--this is onlu my second, and before I bought my wrx I was actually shopping BMW 3 series, mercedes c class, etc, and test drove the new subaru on a whim after having read some articles. The wrx wasn't as posh, but it was faster, handled better, had better seats, had awd, etc, etc, and I was amazed by the level of performance for the price. Likewise I was impressed by the new Legacy compared to the price. Does this mean I wouldn't get something else next time around? Nope, but I can appreciate what subie offers. I just hate to see knee jerk opinions based on ignorance anywhere.

Have a nice day...