The Leg GT is better than many of you give it credit. It's very quiet, perhaps even less engine noise than the G35. It's roomier than you think (and the G wasn't as roomy as I was expecting).

Yes, you give up a little luxury bling (the projector halogen bulbs don't sound sexy, but they provide at least as high a quality pattern as the reflector HIDs of the G, minus the HID color).

I thought the G35 sedan I strongly considered was a good bang for the buck in comparison to the 3-series.

Now I think the Leg GT is a good bang for the buck in comparison to the G35.

I truly do like the G35.

The Legacy just does 99% of what the G35 does at a much lower price. Plus I can get it in a wagon, and it has *much* better seats than the G35's torture devices. (a set of Recaros would make the G35 a LOT better)

I give the G35 and it's owners big props.

But even though I shopped the G35 hard, I'm stepping over to the Legacy GT.

If you're in control, you're not driving fast enough -- Parnelli Jones

 

Good to hear you can get tht wagon.

"lol oh man, you are living in a dream world, aren't you! First of all, "the mags" haven't tested the GT yet, so I don't know where you are getting that. But you can look over at the "Me vs WRX" thread in your own forum to read about how a base model wrx will smoke the G. Having come from a wrx, I can tell you that the GT feels as fast or faster to me. Plus there is the fact that subaru only estimated the 0-60 on the wrx as 6.2 before it came out, but C&D immediately got a 5.4. Assuming that they estimated conservatively on the GT as well (they have been estimating a 5.8 so far I believe pre-release), it should be faster still. I also notice perusing the other threads any number on such things as misaligned trunks, varieties of strange noises, and actual suggestions of class action lawsuits over uncomfortable seats causing severe pain. I'm also thinking if I look in Consumer Reports I will find that Subaru ranks just as well as Nissan as far as reliability--perhaps you are looking at JD Powers "customer satisfaction" ratings or something when you dream that Nissan is the premier automaker--you do realize that "customer satisfaction after three months of ownership" is pretty much a useless rating, right?

as Mark Twain said, "Denial ain't just a river in Egypt"...

and you spelled "delusional" wrong...best stay away from those "big words", eh? "

I've been eating modded wrx's for 1 year now - dream on clutch killer. You got a slight chance if you wind it to 6000 and drop the clutch. Enjoy your WRX i was referring to the GT which someone says they have already and it's slow apparently - truth be told I'd much rather have the wrx which is true to it's supposed heritage and is an econobox no frills kickin car. Did I miss something? The camary beating GT is great and the WRX is great

Let's see Im here with nothing to prove and you guys are over here trying to convince me that I should buy into this...whose complaining about the seat? 2 people now?

2003.5 DP 5AT Sedan (E-thing but Nav)
14.2 @ 97.18
Z-Tube
K&N Drop In & Airbox Mod
10 Wire Hyper-Ground
Crawford Plenum (V4)
UR Crank Pulley
Polk EX-3500 Tweeters/Shock Sensor/H-Liner

 

edited for the sake of civility...<P ID="edit"><FONT class="small"><EM>Edited by scubie02 on 07/13/04 04:46 PM.</EM></FONT></P>

 

Here is a side by side comparo for those that wish to look at dimensions, cost, and features side by side.

http://autos.msn.com/research/compar...99033&v=t98313

'04 6MT Sport Sedan

UR crank pulley
Helix test pipes
G35C midpipe
Z intake tube
Nismo Sport "dry" air filter
Nismo grounding kit
RS*R Z33 springs
Hawk HPS brake pads
Motul 600 RBF

 

Not trying to convince anyone of anything... other than to take a look and drive a Legacy GT before you say how bad it is. If you drive it and hate it, fine.

I drove it and liked it.

Ok, group hug time... we're debating over 2 good cars. For one, I feel pretty d@mn lucky that we have cars like the G35 and Leg GT as choices for the $$ they want for them. As enthusiast sport sedan shoppers, these are good times.

If you're in control, you're not driving fast enough -- Parnelli Jones

 

Not intending to keep fueling the flame war here but I must clarify a couple of things.

What I said in an earlier post was that the 2.5turbo in the STI pulls like a big block. And it does if you've ever happened to drive one. 300hp and 300lb/ft of torque surprisingly low in the rpms. The point I was making here, is that the 2.5 turbo is a very strong motor.

The comment about the V6 versus boxer engine was referring to the fact that inline 6 engines and flat 6 engines, from a technical standpoint, are superior designs to a V6. Like I said before, they are harmonically balanced with 1st and 2nd order vibrations. V6's are not. Also, boxer engines have a lower center of mass and which is an advantage. The point I was making here was in reply to the absurd statement that the boxer engine configuration is a poor design. It may be less common on the road, but it has many advantages. Note, I never said anything about a boxer 4 being superior to a V6. I personally would prefer a flat 4 over a V6, but that's more because of my love of Porsches. Each has its advantages.

I think great arguments can be made for any of the cars mentioned in this thread. Each person has a personal preference of things that they like and some cars suit those better then others. My hats are off to the Subie owners and the G35 owners here, they're all great cars. I just feel the need to address factual errors/misunderstandings when I see them.

 

Yes, these are indeed good times.

 

"(and no true enthusiast would be caught dead in an auto)"

Mario Andretti's web site (andretti.com) lists first among his personal vehicles a Mercedes S500. I think Mario qualifies as a true enthusiast and yet he apparently would be caught dead in an auto.

Just an observation.

04 G35X

 

Agreed. Choices like these are hard to beat. (Pining for a Leg STi or GT-R)

'04 6MT Sport Sedan

UR crank pulley
Helix test pipes
G35C midpipe
Z intake tube
Nismo Sport "dry" air filter
Nismo grounding kit
RS*R Z33 springs
Hawk HPS brake pads
Motul 600 RBF

 

"(and no true enthusiast would be caught dead in an auto)"

Mario Andretti's web site (andretti.com) lists first among his personal vehicles a Mercedes S500. I think Mario qualifies as a true enthusiast and yet he apparently would be caught dead in an auto.

Just an observation.

lol I meant in a wrx actually...changes the whole character

 

With all due respect, I think that comment was mentioned before in a previous post referring to a G35 as well, and I must say that after many years of driving a 5 speed MT, it gets a little old and tiring (not to mention the prospect of your clutch burning out and slipping if you're hard on it).

With today's technology and ManuMatic shifting in a 5AT becoming a little more mainstream, it's nice to have the best of both worlds. When you're on the cell phone, taking a sip of your morning coffee, or handing some french fries to your 2-year-old in the carseat behind you, it's great to be able to just flip it into D and not worry about shifting. Conversly, being able to run around town in a MT SportsSedan without a clutch is so much fun. In my G35, I almost always drive in MM mode except when in the aformentioned type of situations and both hands are needed for multiple tasks while in the car.

So, just b/c you drive an Automatic as opposed to a MT doesn't mean you're not a car enthusiast; it just means you use your car for more than just driving around a race track.

btw - I think what SixFive was speaking about a new Legacy GT being slow with his quote "...I was referring to the GT which someone says they have already and it's slow apparently ..." was referring to my earlier post after I visited YOUR site and noticed one of your Subie friends mentioned in his post that he has been very disappointed so far with how fast (or not so fast) his '05 AutoMatic Legacy GT has been timing in 0-60 runs of 7.8 sec. (although he still likes it very much). Then, someone else replied saying that it's probably b/c it's an AutoMatic Legacy GT and the MT is much faster.

I of course have no idea whether this is accurate or not; it's just what one '05 Subaru Legacy GT owner is currently experiencing. As you know, a stock G35 5AT routinely does 0-60 in 6.2 sec.; I guess that's on par or close to what the new Subaru Legacy GT in MT does, and I believe the stock G35 6MT is a bit faster. In addition, it will be interesting to see if the new '05 Infiniti G35 Sedan will in fact be even faster with it's new 277HP rating???? There is some debate over this until it's actually confirmed with the new G35's out this fall. Personally, I'm plenty satisfied with my G35 with the Z Tube/K&N combo (which has dyno'd at around 270HP at crank in other Sedans with the same setup).



2004.5 G35-S 5AT Black/Willow - Prem, R. Spoiler, Navi, Infiniti Sport Wheels, Alum Pedals, Dark Tint, Z Tube, K&N Filter<P ID="edit"><FONT class="small"><EM>Edited by bsgoren on 07/13/04 05:34 PM.</EM></FONT></P>

 

Well, it's kinda neither here nor there, but MotorWeek tested a 5AT Outback XT a little while back. It's about 300 lbs heavier than a Legacy GT. It did 0-60 in 6.8.

USAC testing of the Leggy GT 5MT says 0-60 in 5.8.

But until the mags start publishing numbers on the GT, it's only guessing.

Each car (G35, GT) does things in different ways. They both kick the crap out of anything out there for that same $$ when looking for a sporty sedan with a healthy dose of refinement.

If you're in control, you're not driving fast enough -- Parnelli Jones

 

Interesting how you talk about a car that has no turbo on it. Of course you can't modify as much, get a life.
I have driven your car and you want to talk about cheesy interior.
The VQ has been rated one of the best engine's in the last eight years, now surpassing the M3 because of RWD.
If I wanted a car that I could modify, I would buy a GTR or an EVO.
Time Attack nobody can touch them.
Stop with your Subies and stop coming to our forum.
Appreciate the Golden Calipers and get a life!!!!!

 

"Appreciate the Golden Calipers and get a life!!!!!"

Appreciate Acura? I think we all appreciate Acura--where did anyone saythey didn't?

Anyway, you've driven the new GT? MT or AT? Nice cars. Don't know where you get the interior is crappy--seems as nice or nicer than the G's to me, but everyone has their own taste...

 

Good new article on the Subie in AutoWeek. It kinda confirms what we've all been saying and explains the uphill battle Subaru faces...

http://autoweek.com/cat_content.mv?p..._code=06650667

(08:30 July 14, 2004)
Experts predict uphill battle for Subaru's effort to go upscale in U.S.


By DIANA T. KURYLKO | Automotive News

CHERRY HILL, N.J. -- Fuji Heavy Industries' bosses in Japan must be dreaming.

The little carmaker's executives are demanding that Subaru draw even with Audi and approach BMW in U.S. brand prestige within five years.

That's quite a shift for a brand that once advertised itself as "inexpensive and built to stay that way." In fact, hardly anyone thinks Subaru can pull it off.

Yet Subaru of America Inc. executives are working hard to compete with European luxury brands rather than emulate Toyota, Honda and Nissan. Subaru already has distanced itself from other Japanese automakers by selling only all-wheel-drive vehicles and getting rid of inexpensive small cars.

Sales nearly have doubled from just over 100,000 vehicles in 1994 to more than 200,000 sales expected this year. But despite pressure to go upscale and earn bigger margins, Subaru executives here say it will take time.

In addition to offering better equipped products, Subaru's upmarket strategy includes:

>>> New advertising that focuses on the brand.

>>> Additional exclusive dealerships and upgraded showrooms.

>>> New styling that debuts next year.

>>> A new logo.

But even with the 2005 Outback and Legacy, which debuted in May, analysts say Subaru models are a long way from luxury products.

"They have become the sole Japanese maker that doesn't want to become Toyota, and that is a good place to be," says Steve Saxty, a partner in Powerbrand Associates, a New York consulting firm. "But they have to find a product range that a more demanding customer would want to pay a premium for."

Jeff Schuster, executive director of global forecasting at J.D. Power and Associates in Troy, Mich., says Subaru is embarking "on a difficult road."

"They are not thought to be a luxury brand today," Schuster says. "They are more of a niche player and will take more marketing and products to move up."

Rick DeSilva, president of Liberty Subaru in Oradell, N.J., says moving upscale is the right strategy. He calls it a natural progression in his market, a wealthy suburban area where Subaru sales have been strong.

Former Subaru of America CEO Takao Saito, who returned to Fuji Heavy in Japan in June, says Subaru aspires to be a prestige brand. But he says the push to be premium and more profitable comes mainly from the parent company.

Fuji wants it sooner rather than later. But Saito sounds more realistic.

"Within five years we will not reach BMW, but we will be closer to … Audi," he says.

Subaru's positioning is not as high in the United States as it is in markets such as Switzerland.

"Perhaps Fuji does not understand the difficulty of moving upscale in the United States," Saito says.

For example, he says, Fuji pushed for Subaru of America to take its name off the rear of cars. But U.S. management convinced the Japanese bosses that it was too soon and that the logo is not as well known here as in other markets.

Analyst Susan Jacobs, who tracks the luxury-car market at Rutherford, N.J.-based Jacobs & Associates, has doubts about Subaru's ambitions.

"The market is too crowded for Subaru to easily move to a more premium positioning for its product," Jacobs says. "There are too many other brands that already have a stronger premium and luxury brand position that will be competing very aggressively for affluent buyers.

"You have to have scale more than product. You have to be upscale in your dealerships and be consistently communicating your brand on the marketing side."

Subaru executives say that's just what they're doing. The company is upgrading its network of 581 dealerships. Under its ongoing Signature Facility program, about 40 percent of Subaru's dealers have renovated their facilities. Subaru says by year end it will have 210 exclusive dealerships, compared with 147 in 2000, and 175 separate showrooms, compared with 130 four years ago.

By 2006 Subaru expects that 76 percent of its dealerships will either be exclusive or have separate showrooms, up from about two-thirds today.

Subaru also is working on its image. It launched new print and TV advertising this spring with the debut of the Outback and Legacy. The ads focus on the brand as well as the product, says Fred Adcock, executive vice president of Subaru of America.

Meanwhile, the logo has been modernized. The six-star cluster badge now has a silver rather than gold background.

"As we transition to having the (new) brand and dealer signs - all of those touch points for the consumer - then we will build awareness," Adcock says.

The Outback sedan and wagon, which debuted in 1996, "saved Subaru," Adcock says. The Forester followed in June 1997. An SUV with room for seven passengers will be launched next spring. With the new Outback and Legacy and new SUV, Subaru plans to reach 250,000 units in annual sales by 2006, up from 186,819 last year.

Sales through the first six months of 2004 are down 4.1 percent compared with last year, to 88,227.

Performance is key to the product strategy. In 2002, Subaru launched the rally car-inspired Impreza WRX. Last year, it added the Impreza STi, with a 2.5-liter turbocharged four-cylinder 300-hp engine.

Both models have been more successful than Subaru expected. The automaker sold about 24,000 WRX models in both 2002 and 2003. The STi has exceeded its target of 300 a month. Sales range between 500 and 600 per month, Adcock says.

Subaru is "the most overengineered among the Japanese," says George Peterson, president of AutoPacific, a consulting firm in Tustin, Calif. He says Subaru has one of the most sophisticated awd systems on the market, and other systems, such as its antilock brakes, also are among the best.

Subaru's quirky looks will soften in the future. The new Outback and Legacy mimic European styling and have upgraded and more stylish interiors. But premium features such as navigation or upscale entertainment and communications systems are not available.

Those features will appear on the upcoming seven-passenger SUV being designed by Subaru's new chief designer, Andreas Zapatinas, who has worked at Alfa Romeo, BMW, Fiat and Pininfarina.

The SUV will debut a family look that will appear on all future Subarus, Adcock says. The design will be sleek and European and signal a dramatic shift in Subaru design, he says.

And the SUV will cost more than Subaru's current range. The price will be above the Outback, which starts at $33,970, including transportation.

Still, AutoPacific's Peterson says the seven-passenger SUV isn't enough for a brand to be considered premium. "All manufacturers need a seven-passenger in their portfolio," he says.

The new Outback and Legacy are better than the cars they replaced but not sophisticated enough to be considered premium, Peterson says.

"The Legacy is an update of the previous one," he says. "They have not had an all-new car for quite a while. If they want to go after Audi, they need a new vehicle from the ground up."



2004.5 G35-S 5AT Black/Willow - Prem, R. Spoiler, Navi, Infiniti Sport Wheels, Alum Pedals, Dark Tint, Z Tube, K&N Filter