Just visited "our friends" over at their Subie Legacy GT site; it seems as if they need to vent further about our discussions here on G35Driver.com. Their thread is called 'G35 owners discuss the Legacy GT .. very interesting ..'

Most of them seem to be very angry people; oh, yeah, btw - evidently I'm the biggest Infiniti snob in the world and I think that my car is the best in the world...LOL.

Hey, we went from being a Lexus family (RX300 & SC) to an Infiniti family (FX35 & G35), and since the Subies think Lexus is more of a lux brand than Infiniti, then according to them, I guess I'm moving down and I'm not so snobby afterall (although my last co. car was a Ford Taurus w/o abs brakes...can you say "hydroplane?"...yikes!). If consumers see Subaru as lower in quality, customer satisfaction, and status as another car brand, then that's Subaru's problem to figure out...not mine.

This is all very hysterical. ;-).

Apparently, the editors and writers at AutoWeek and the folks at J.D. Power & Associates are also all snobs too. Instead of calling me a snob, are the Subies going to argue with AutoWeek magazine and J.D. Power & Assoc. now?



2004.5 G35-S 5AT Black/Willow - Prem, R. Spoiler, Navi, Infiniti Sport Wheels, Alum Pedals, Dark Tint, Z Tube, K&N Filter<P ID="edit"><FONT class="small"><EM>Edited by bsgoren on 07/14/04 10:16 AM.</EM></FONT></P>

 

"The Legacy is an update of the previous one," he says. "They have not had an all-new car for quite a while. If they want to go after Audi, they need a new vehicle from the ground up."


PS EVERYONE and thier mom is going upscale - ALL consumers are going upscale according to market research. People want to feel elite even if they know they are not and car makers try to cater to this emotion. VW is going upscale...hell they all are shooting for BMW even infiniti..but BMW is raising the bar and so are the consumers. Late reaction to the same strategy everyone wants to implement. The market is mature and no one is really any better of with all makers relative in context of higher expectations from the consumer.

Are you kidding - this says everything. Apparently some will buy into the 'image' they want to portray even if it's with the same old school underpinnings. I like the fact they overengineer - whats so wrong with that if it doesn't keep you from innovating (i guess thats the point?)

Subbie has more loyal followers - like saab. Lets let them be the individuals they are..they riled us up pretty good and it was fun riling them back..they must love me over there...lunch reading time. When you separate the subjectiveness about image from the real deal behind what makes up the car....it's clear what both are made of even tho they get you to 60 or 100 at the same time - supposedly

2003.5 DP 5AT Sedan (E-thing but Nav)
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<P ID="edit"><FONT class="small"><EM>Edited by SixFive on 07/14/04 09:40 AM.</EM></FONT></P>

 

Totally agree about it being an uphill battle to go upmarket with a "mid-level" brand. Comments like "but it's a Subaru," are proof. Subaru has its work cut out.

However, I don't agree with the Peterson guy who says they're just facelifts. The new cars are just that... new. It's a different chassis, the suspension's different, etc. Subaru should've gotten a little more bold with the styling to differentiate them from the older ones.

The other good point was about the dealerships... two I went to were co-resident with 1) Buick and 2) Pontiac. Yeah, terrific way to build a loyal customer following.

I like the Legacy GT wagon 5MT enough to buy one, which says a lot considering the other two finalists were the G35 and 3-series. But for Subaru to capture the casual "entry-level-luxury" market is going to be a tall order.

But at least it's not as stupid as selling a $90k VW. ;-)

And yeah, it's also interesting to see how bent out of shape people can get in forums. Oh well.

If you're in control, you're not driving fast enough -- Parnelli Jones

 

Golden Calipers=Motor Trend Car of The Year.

 

Thats why lexus and infiniti exist...now people just say it's just a nissan anyway - but the 90% that care dont even know anyway

2003.5 DP 5AT Sedan (E-thing but Nav)
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The other problem they have is GM controls 20% of Fuji's interest. They strong armed Subaru to waive design rights on the WRX and released it as the Saab 9-2X. Saab did a better job at exterior visual presentation and a little better on the interior, but it's bloodlines still show through.

'04 6MT Sport Sedan

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I just remembered I actually test drove the old GT Legacy and thought it was nice until I drove the passat. IT was actually my car of choice until the actual day of reckoning. It really is a great car but once you get enthusiastic ..so sorry.

I looked over at thier site and they were actually pretty reasonable overall except for some things they say about Bsgoren. The one thing I'll never understand is why poeple who so adamantly don't want ot fit in to the mainstream want so many pats on the back for this car. If "all" infiniti drivers are snobs who only care about image then why are they trying to convince us snobs about thier new answer to the mercedes gullwing of sedans?

it's exciting that new car vibe but jeeez. Superiority complex abounds over there more than nastiness..which is what they say about us too. I think the G is a sports sedan not a lux car. I hate the image of snob driver with badge shwoing off money ( like when my stepmom chastises and wants me to buy dinner cuz I have a nice car). This is why I didn't really want to buy a 3/5 series - people get freaked on for seeming rich to the poor and I want to be stealty and fast in RWD mid size sedan. There really are few options...

Oh and what the hell is with them so desparate for the entry lux class comparison? It's 22 grand and on that alone it's not in the class WHICH IS GOOD SINCE THEY GET THE CAR THEY WANT FOR MUCH LESS...people are wierd. Who cares what class it;s in - buy it on it's own merit and quit worring about what your fellow v-6 drivers think. Oh and 4 cylinders are never quite like 6's even with the fatal V flaw...i was 31 before I was willing to quit that one. Nothing like being pushed instead of being pulled. There is no substitute for torque - even 300hp isn't enought for me when the tq is like 160 or 180.

O wait the 2.5 is like a blown big block - my bad



2003.5 DP 5AT Sedan (E-thing but Nav)
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PS you own this car right - is it redesigned or not?? Im confused

2003.5 DP 5AT Sedan (E-thing but Nav)
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Yup, I got this car because it is a 4 door 350Z and passed on an STi and Leg GT limited (turbo) coming from a Cobb Stage 2 WRX. No regrets so far. The price for 300 cHP from a brilliantly designed NA motor was too much of a pull on my ethusiast soul. Head to head the STi was a better performance car, but knowing how tweakable the G35 superior driver's platform is was more of a selling point. Can't get the STi without a wing. I guess it would be great to serve lunch on or dry laundry, though. Subaru may get back hardcore enthusiasts, instead of boy racers, if they export the Leg STi. TheLeg GT is not there yet, IMHO.

'04 6MT Sport Sedan

UR crank pulley
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G35C midpipe
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Motul 600 RBF

 

I agree with your VW assessment...I don't think I'll ever see a Pheaton (not sure if I even spelled it right...what a ridiculous name for a brand new, expensive, fancy, lux sports sedan marketed in the U.S anyway) on the road...ever. Although the VW Toureg won many awards (I think it was the 2003 MT SUV of the Year), it too lacks the poularity even though it's bascially a Porsche Cayenne (which is another sad story as well).

I also agree with your points about Subaru's dealership marketing/partnership issues, but the article in AutoWeek did mention that Subaru is determined to finally differentiate their dealerships as some will become soley independent dealerships with more upscale interiors and ammenities...it's all in the presentation and customer service. For example, JM Lexus in Margate, FL is what all lux/near-lux car dealships should be!!! If anyone has ever been to S. Florida and knows the Lexus dealerships, you'll know what I'm talking about. In many respects, this Lexus dealership is the finest dealership I have ever seen -- the largest, most upscale, superior white-glove customer service...better than any BMW, MB, Jaguar, Infiniti, Audi, etc. I've ever seen (although I haven't been in a Rolls Royce or Bentley dealership). When customers walk in to JM Lexus, they instantly forget these cars and SUVs are made by Toyota.

Compared to JM Lexus, my Infiniti dealership is like a Pontiac dealership, but from what I've seen so far, it's still better than most. As I mentioned in my response to 'Scubie02', I have no idea where my local Subaru dealer is, but I do know there's 3 Infiniti dealers within 20 miles of me. He mentioned there's 3 Subaru dealers in his surrounding area in NY, I think, but then again, he's a real Subie fan who would know exactly where they are.

For all my "snobbiness," I still made very valid points confirmed by AutoWeek magazine and J.D. Powers & Assoc. The new Legacy GT appears to be a very fast, somewhat upscale but very bland-looking sports sedan which lacks some lux ammenities and gets lost with all the other plain looking sports sedans in the category. It will be interesting if Subaru can do in the next 5 years what they've invisioned; I think it will take some more upscale models with more radical designs and technology to keep up with BMW, MB, Audi, Lexus, and Infiniti.

btw - I too chose the G35 Sedan for my new co. car over the Acura TL, Mazda 6s, MB C Class, and BMW 3 Series b/c I feel it really is a 4-door 350Z and I love to drive it...it's definitely a somehat lux /near-lux car, loaded with all the goodies that I needed and wanted, it's RWD, it's professional looking, it's very fast, and a blast to drive! A little status is just a plus..as most G35 drivers do, I get plenty of compliments from my neighbors who drive the Bimmers and Lexus. I just smile and say thank you, but I think "yeah, and boy, is it fast and fun to drive...wanna race?" ;-)



2004.5 G35-S 5AT Black/Willow - Prem, R. Spoiler, Navi, Infiniti Sport Wheels, Alum Pedals, Dark Tint, Z Tube, K&N Filter<P ID="edit"><FONT class="small"><EM>Edited by bsgoren on 07/14/04 12:56 PM.</EM></FONT></P>

 

I don't see the "strong armed" nature of the relationship at all.

The WRX/9-2x was apparently and very successful venture, so much so that there is a new phase of cooperation that has been just announced.

Announced on July 8, 2004 (from Saab's web site).

Saab Automobile AB and Fuji Heavy Industries Ltd. (FHI), the Japanese auto manufacturer of Subaru vehicles, have agreed on collaboration for a new cross-over vehicle.

The project represents an expansion of the cooperation between Saab and FHI that was initiated last year with Saab vehicle sales through select Subaru dealer outlets in Japan, and was followed this year with the introduction of the Saab 9-2X premium sports compact in the U.S. and Canadian markets.

“We continue to see a working relationship between FHI and Saab as a very natural fit,” says Bob Lutz, GM's vice chairman for product development. “It makes sense for FHI and Saab to work together early in the development process to deliver their own distinct interpretations of a sporty and versatile ‘cross-over’ product.”

The new collaboration between Saab and FHI will integrate the development of a new Saab cross-over vehicle with FHI’s cross-over project for Subaru. Both vehicles will be produced at FHI’s U.S. manufacturing facility.

“We are pleased that our alliance with GM enables us to continue to work together with Saab,” said Kyoji Takenaka, president and CEO of FHI. “This collaboration provides many benefits such as economies of scale, higher joint volume for FHI’s U.S. manufacturing facility, etc. and most importantly, creates a win-win situation for both FHI and Saab.”


It sounds like Takenaka said, "... a win-win situation...”

If Saabs become known for having Subaru underpinnings and the market accepts that, then doesn't Subaru move a little more up market in the process? I know Saabs aren't considered in the same light as the Japanese luxury brands (i.e. for their rock solid build and reliability) yet they have had a small but loyal following from affluent buyers. That's what Subaru wants, affluent buyers.

This is also reminds me of the Chrysler 300 that is benefiting from design cooperation with parent company Mercedes. The 300 moves upscale by virtue of the Mercedes E-class derived suspension components. Does it seem like a coincidence that the Chrysler 300 is now related to the former E300?

It looks to me like Subaru is making some smart decisions on how to compete in this luxury market. GM pioneered automobile branding, I don't see them as a liability at all.



04 G35X

 

The 2.5 turbo is like a blown big block? Look at the torque figures for the STI, the horsepower and torque numbers are the same(300hp/300lb/ft). The STI makes quite a bit of torque down low. And I agree that rwd is superior to fwd. But I think a good awd is better then both, especially in real world driving. In that test that I mentioned many pages back, the findings were that awd had an advantage on the track in conditions that are ideal for rwd. That was a surprise to me because holding all other variables constant I would have thought that rwd would be the fastest on dry pavement conditions. I love rwd myself, my sports car is as well, but awd is faster 98% of the time.

Once again, I think its a personal preference regarding a FI 4 or a NA 6. But who really cares. Having different designs and configurations out there gives us all more choices and that keeps things fun.

 

It's all fun yer correct

But come on - when i think big block i think cuda hemi and spinning tires all the way to 80 and THEN hooking up. All noise all torque and thrust that plows you into the recesses of the seat and 1/4 miles in the 12's at 115-130. 0-60 in 4.5 seconds!

I like your enthusiasm but big blocks are unto themselves - most dont wont even wind out to the tq peak for an STI.

oh and how many cars are we draggin into this shindig. STI is great too...but i dont want one. I'd rather FI the v-6 and have 400/400 and do 12.5 - hey like a big block...

2003.5 DP 5AT Sedan (E-thing but Nav)
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bsgoren I saw a Phaeton the other day - i was surprised...but lets be real...that is a great car for the snob like me who doesn;t want people to know im a snob and around here there are plenty who want to pay a lot for a car but cant tell the diff between a Jag and a Lexus. IT's a phat car that phaeton - is it better than the class - no but i find it compelling nevertheless.

2003.5 DP 5AT Sedan (E-thing but Nav)
14.2 @ 97.18
Z-Tube
K&N Drop In & Airbox Mod
10 Wire Hyper-Ground
Crawford Plenum (V4)
UR Crank Pulley
Polk EX-3500 Tweeters/Shock Sensor/H-Liner

 

GM made the call against Subarus will via pressure on Fuji. Subaru is a great company with a lot of pride filled engineers. That is why the quirkiness in design is marked. If you ever work on one, it is bliss. There is not a wrench angle on their cars. These guys like to own what they take pride in. Corporate pressure and washing it well for PR's sake is another story. I'm sure they're just one big happy family.

'04 6MT Sport Sedan

UR crank pulley
Helix test pipes
G35C midpipe
Z intake tube
Nismo Sport "dry" air filter
Nismo grounding kit
RS*R Z33 springs
Hawk HPS brake pads
Motul 600 RBF