Rev up Airbox vs other intakes?
#76
04-29-2010, 08:05 AM
I wish I could draw a diagram, but i will do my best.
_________________________
____ ____________ _______
Now this is representative of a tubing with 2 NVH reduction chambers. The spot were the "holes" are is where the chamber would be hanging down, lets not forget that these chambers are large enough to hold more air than the intake tube itself. if you force air down this tube, some air will flow down the "holes", which in turn is air that did not make it to it's detonation point. Which by common sense would mean a restriction of airflow. This is why the Z-tube adds about 5 hp. That is proven in the hp numbers from factory on the g35 and the 350z, and the factory admits that this is the only difference in the two engines. So with all that said, between my non-scientific tests, the factory, and common sense, how do these NOT restrict airflow?
_________________________
____ ____________ _______
Now this is representative of a tubing with 2 NVH reduction chambers. The spot were the "holes" are is where the chamber would be hanging down, lets not forget that these chambers are large enough to hold more air than the intake tube itself. if you force air down this tube, some air will flow down the "holes", which in turn is air that did not make it to it's detonation point. Which by common sense would mean a restriction of airflow. This is why the Z-tube adds about 5 hp. That is proven in the hp numbers from factory on the g35 and the 350z, and the factory admits that this is the only difference in the two engines. So with all that said, between my non-scientific tests, the factory, and common sense, how do these NOT restrict airflow?
#77
04-29-2010, 08:27 AM
The R2C is just as good if not better than the stillen. If you completely seal off the air box you wouldnt be getting the airflow that these intakes are supposed to get. With a sealed off box you will be sucking in dry, stale air. You have to have fresh air coming in from the front of your vehicle. yes the diverter from the factory puts a little air over there and the stock airbox....well just look at the design it all restricted up with chambers that IMO still restrict air flow. Also in my at home NON-SCIENTIFIC, but very COMMON SENSE (which for some reason no one seems to have anymore) testing the stock air box loses about half of the air that is pulled in. On top of that I had a '86 Honda Accord hatchback with a 2.0L elec fuel injection engine when I was 19, the factory intake had this type of chamber on it, once I sealed the chamber up so no air flow would be LOST in the chamber I could tell a huge difference in power, response, and sound. This chamber was a 16th the size of one of the chambers on the stock G intake, I could imagine the air lost in that system.
#78
04-29-2010, 08:31 AM
I wish I could draw a diagram, but i will do my best.
_________________________
____ ____________ _______
Now this is representative of a tubing with 2 NVH reduction chambers. The spot were the "holes" are is where the chamber would be hanging down, lets not forget that these chambers are large enough to hold more air than the intake tube itself. if you force air down this tube, some air will flow down the "holes", which in turn is air that did not make it to it's detonation point. Which by common sense would mean a restriction of airflow. This is why the Z-tube adds about 5 hp. That is proven in the hp numbers from factory on the g35 and the 350z, and the factory admits that this is the only difference in the two engines. So with all that said, between my non-scientific tests, the factory, and common sense, how do these NOT restrict airflow?
_________________________
____ ____________ _______
Now this is representative of a tubing with 2 NVH reduction chambers. The spot were the "holes" are is where the chamber would be hanging down, lets not forget that these chambers are large enough to hold more air than the intake tube itself. if you force air down this tube, some air will flow down the "holes", which in turn is air that did not make it to it's detonation point. Which by common sense would mean a restriction of airflow. This is why the Z-tube adds about 5 hp. That is proven in the hp numbers from factory on the g35 and the 350z, and the factory admits that this is the only difference in the two engines. So with all that said, between my non-scientific tests, the factory, and common sense, how do these NOT restrict airflow?
- the factory rating system is a numbers game for marketing purposes, just so you know.
- the Z-tube adds ZERO gains PERIOD
#79
04-29-2010, 09:52 AM
Well real world driving is my biggest "tell tell". With stock box in 2nd gear fuel cut off kicks in at 60mph. With R2C I can make it to almost 68 mph in 2nd gear. I picked up 8 mph before fuel cut off. To me this means something. That isn't a "butt dyno" that is the vehicle's speedo and rpm gauge. I can not explain it.
I know this will get a few laughs but I am gonna say it also, my phone has an accelerometer in it and has a program that will determine 0mph to 60mph. With stock airbox 0 to 60 was 5.6 sec. (that was the average, times between 5.2 up to 5.9 sec, just depends on temp and all that, this was multiple tests over a 6 month period) with the R2C intake I have seen an average of 5.3 sec. Times have been between 5.0 sec up to 5.6 sec. This has only been over the course of a week, and the stock airbox had the advantage of winter time here in VA, this week the temps have been between 40 degrees (morning and best times) to 80 degrees (afternoon). I know in real world racing these guys would spend thousands just trying to get one tenth of a second off of their times, hell I knocked up to 9 tenths of a second off for $265.00. What a deal. I am looking to get the cobb tuner so I feel like I am getting a better 0 to 60 mph timer, but also for tuning.
I am not trying to argue guys, just posting my finds and opinions, and of course it is just like my father used to tell me when I was younger, "Opinions are like a$$holes, everyone's got one." I guess in fixing up your car this statement has never been more true.
But let me see a race car, a modded car, or a Forced induction car with NVH chambers and then I will believe that they "help" and do not restrict airflow. Until then, IMO they restrict the heck out of the air getting to detonation.
I know this will get a few laughs but I am gonna say it also, my phone has an accelerometer in it and has a program that will determine 0mph to 60mph. With stock airbox 0 to 60 was 5.6 sec. (that was the average, times between 5.2 up to 5.9 sec, just depends on temp and all that, this was multiple tests over a 6 month period) with the R2C intake I have seen an average of 5.3 sec. Times have been between 5.0 sec up to 5.6 sec. This has only been over the course of a week, and the stock airbox had the advantage of winter time here in VA, this week the temps have been between 40 degrees (morning and best times) to 80 degrees (afternoon). I know in real world racing these guys would spend thousands just trying to get one tenth of a second off of their times, hell I knocked up to 9 tenths of a second off for $265.00. What a deal. I am looking to get the cobb tuner so I feel like I am getting a better 0 to 60 mph timer, but also for tuning.
I am not trying to argue guys, just posting my finds and opinions, and of course it is just like my father used to tell me when I was younger, "Opinions are like a$$holes, everyone's got one." I guess in fixing up your car this statement has never been more true.
But let me see a race car, a modded car, or a Forced induction car with NVH chambers and then I will believe that they "help" and do not restrict airflow. Until then, IMO they restrict the heck out of the air getting to detonation.
#80
04-29-2010, 01:23 PM
I was determined to stay out of this (because these debates always end up pointless)…
But too much of what is being said needs to be addressed…
First off – the air in the “chamber” doesn’t sit there like water – it is continuing to be circulated – so it makes it to the combustion chamber just as it would without the chamber… there could be an argument about the velocity (as in vs a straight flow) but that doesn’t really matter either since there are so many choke points before the combustion chamber anyway… the entire induction tube track (with its smaller diameter), the TB (and its diameter), a 60 degree turn in the goose-neck of the upper plenum, across the plenum through intake runners (which can all be modified for better flow) – all before it reaches the valves. So baffling or chambers (as far upstream as the air filter) aren’t going to make much difference in the whole of things… and the air certainly doesn’t just sit there.
The same applies to the relative size of the filter media… a larger filter might prove minutely beneficial, but again, the same amount of air is reaching combustion chamber at the same flow rate. Velocity rings will help flow as will other tweaks, but the farther downstream you go, the more beneficial the tweaks.
The most important thing to consider is where the air is being drawn from. This is the biggest thing that will affect the most… and the one condition we have the most control over. Draw air form the coldest source possible and keep it as cold as possible. Period. Drawing it from ground level that can be as much as 20 degrees hotter than 3 ft higher is not the solution – sucking up hot engine bay heat is not the solution… with the design of first gen Gs, the best source is from the grille (as direct as you can get it).
That’s all – ta-ta, buh-bye.
But too much of what is being said needs to be addressed…
First off – the air in the “chamber” doesn’t sit there like water – it is continuing to be circulated – so it makes it to the combustion chamber just as it would without the chamber… there could be an argument about the velocity (as in vs a straight flow) but that doesn’t really matter either since there are so many choke points before the combustion chamber anyway… the entire induction tube track (with its smaller diameter), the TB (and its diameter), a 60 degree turn in the goose-neck of the upper plenum, across the plenum through intake runners (which can all be modified for better flow) – all before it reaches the valves. So baffling or chambers (as far upstream as the air filter) aren’t going to make much difference in the whole of things… and the air certainly doesn’t just sit there.
The same applies to the relative size of the filter media… a larger filter might prove minutely beneficial, but again, the same amount of air is reaching combustion chamber at the same flow rate. Velocity rings will help flow as will other tweaks, but the farther downstream you go, the more beneficial the tweaks.
The most important thing to consider is where the air is being drawn from. This is the biggest thing that will affect the most… and the one condition we have the most control over. Draw air form the coldest source possible and keep it as cold as possible. Period. Drawing it from ground level that can be as much as 20 degrees hotter than 3 ft higher is not the solution – sucking up hot engine bay heat is not the solution… with the design of first gen Gs, the best source is from the grille (as direct as you can get it).
That’s all – ta-ta, buh-bye.
#81
04-29-2010, 04:49 PM
Kind of off-topic, but are people still having problems with cars stalling at highway speeds after installing a short-ram intake? I'm installing an Arc airbox and tube tonight and was wondering if I would be okay with an ECU reset. It's a dry filter so getting the MAF covered in oil isn't an issue like it is with Popchargers either.
I know this was a huge issue back in 04-05, but I haven't heard much of it recently.
I know this was a huge issue back in 04-05, but I haven't heard much of it recently.
#82
04-29-2010, 04:57 PM
I wish I could draw a diagram, but i will do my best.
_________________________
____ ____________ _______
Now this is representative of a tubing with 2 NVH reduction chambers. The spot were the "holes" are is where the chamber would be hanging down, lets not forget that these chambers are large enough to hold more air than the intake tube itself. if you force air down this tube, some air will flow down the "holes", which in turn is air that did not make it to it's detonation point. Which by common sense would mean a restriction of airflow. This is why the Z-tube adds about 5 hp. That is proven in the hp numbers from factory on the g35 and the 350z, and the factory admits that this is the only difference in the two engines. So with all that said, between my non-scientific tests, the factory, and common sense, how do these NOT restrict airflow?
_________________________
____ ____________ _______
Now this is representative of a tubing with 2 NVH reduction chambers. The spot were the "holes" are is where the chamber would be hanging down, lets not forget that these chambers are large enough to hold more air than the intake tube itself. if you force air down this tube, some air will flow down the "holes", which in turn is air that did not make it to it's detonation point. Which by common sense would mean a restriction of airflow. This is why the Z-tube adds about 5 hp. That is proven in the hp numbers from factory on the g35 and the 350z, and the factory admits that this is the only difference in the two engines. So with all that said, between my non-scientific tests, the factory, and common sense, how do these NOT restrict airflow?
And no, the Z tube does NOT add 5 hp. I've run both and noticed nothing (if I could even notice such a small diff)
#83
04-30-2010, 12:10 AM
Well real world driving is my biggest "tell tell". With stock box in 2nd gear fuel cut off kicks in at 60mph. With R2C I can make it to almost 68 mph in 2nd gear. I picked up 8 mph before fuel cut off. To me this means something. That isn't a "butt dyno" that is the vehicle's speedo and rpm gauge. I can not explain it.
I know this will get a few laughs but I am gonna say it also, my phone has an accelerometer in it and has a program that will determine 0mph to 60mph. With stock airbox 0 to 60 was 5.6 sec. (that was the average, times between 5.2 up to 5.9 sec, just depends on temp and all that, this was multiple tests over a 6 month period) with the R2C intake I have seen an average of 5.3 sec. Times have been between 5.0 sec up to 5.6 sec. This has only been over the course of a week, and the stock airbox had the advantage of winter time here in VA, this week the temps have been between 40 degrees (morning and best times) to 80 degrees (afternoon). I know in real world racing these guys would spend thousands just trying to get one tenth of a second off of their times, hell I knocked up to 9 tenths of a second off for $265.00. What a deal. I am looking to get the cobb tuner so I feel like I am getting a better 0 to 60 mph timer, but also for tuning.
I am not trying to argue guys, just posting my finds and opinions, and of course it is just like my father used to tell me when I was younger, "Opinions are like a$$holes, everyone's got one." I guess in fixing up your car this statement has never been more true.
But let me see a race car, a modded car, or a Forced induction car with NVH chambers and then I will believe that they "help" and do not restrict airflow. Until then, IMO they restrict the heck out of the air getting to detonation.
I know this will get a few laughs but I am gonna say it also, my phone has an accelerometer in it and has a program that will determine 0mph to 60mph. With stock airbox 0 to 60 was 5.6 sec. (that was the average, times between 5.2 up to 5.9 sec, just depends on temp and all that, this was multiple tests over a 6 month period) with the R2C intake I have seen an average of 5.3 sec. Times have been between 5.0 sec up to 5.6 sec. This has only been over the course of a week, and the stock airbox had the advantage of winter time here in VA, this week the temps have been between 40 degrees (morning and best times) to 80 degrees (afternoon). I know in real world racing these guys would spend thousands just trying to get one tenth of a second off of their times, hell I knocked up to 9 tenths of a second off for $265.00. What a deal. I am looking to get the cobb tuner so I feel like I am getting a better 0 to 60 mph timer, but also for tuning.
I am not trying to argue guys, just posting my finds and opinions, and of course it is just like my father used to tell me when I was younger, "Opinions are like a$$holes, everyone's got one." I guess in fixing up your car this statement has never been more true.
But let me see a race car, a modded car, or a Forced induction car with NVH chambers and then I will believe that they "help" and do not restrict airflow. Until then, IMO they restrict the heck out of the air getting to detonation.
#84
05-11-2010, 05:41 PM
Well real world driving is my biggest "tell tell". With stock box in 2nd gear fuel cut off kicks in at 60mph. With R2C I can make it to almost 68 mph in 2nd gear. I picked up 8 mph before fuel cut off. To me this means something. That isn't a "butt dyno" that is the vehicle's speedo and rpm gauge. I can not explain it.
I know this will get a few laughs but I am gonna say it also, my phone has an accelerometer in it and has a program that will determine 0mph to 60mph. With stock airbox 0 to 60 was 5.6 sec. (that was the average, times between 5.2 up to 5.9 sec, just depends on temp and all that, this was multiple tests over a 6 month period) with the R2C intake I have seen an average of 5.3 sec. Times have been between 5.0 sec up to 5.6 sec. This has only been over the course of a week, and the stock airbox had the advantage of winter time here in VA, this week the temps have been between 40 degrees (morning and best times) to 80 degrees (afternoon). I know in real world racing these guys would spend thousands just trying to get one tenth of a second off of their times, hell I knocked up to 9 tenths of a second off for $265.00. What a deal. I am looking to get the cobb tuner so I feel like I am getting a better 0 to 60 mph timer, but also for tuning.
I am not trying to argue guys, just posting my finds and opinions, and of course it is just like my father used to tell me when I was younger, "Opinions are like a$$holes, everyone's got one." I guess in fixing up your car this statement has never been more true.
But let me see a race car, a modded car, or a Forced induction car with NVH chambers and then I will believe that they "help" and do not restrict airflow. Until then, IMO they restrict the heck out of the air getting to detonation.
I know this will get a few laughs but I am gonna say it also, my phone has an accelerometer in it and has a program that will determine 0mph to 60mph. With stock airbox 0 to 60 was 5.6 sec. (that was the average, times between 5.2 up to 5.9 sec, just depends on temp and all that, this was multiple tests over a 6 month period) with the R2C intake I have seen an average of 5.3 sec. Times have been between 5.0 sec up to 5.6 sec. This has only been over the course of a week, and the stock airbox had the advantage of winter time here in VA, this week the temps have been between 40 degrees (morning and best times) to 80 degrees (afternoon). I know in real world racing these guys would spend thousands just trying to get one tenth of a second off of their times, hell I knocked up to 9 tenths of a second off for $265.00. What a deal. I am looking to get the cobb tuner so I feel like I am getting a better 0 to 60 mph timer, but also for tuning.
I am not trying to argue guys, just posting my finds and opinions, and of course it is just like my father used to tell me when I was younger, "Opinions are like a$$holes, everyone's got one." I guess in fixing up your car this statement has never been more true.
But let me see a race car, a modded car, or a Forced induction car with NVH chambers and then I will believe that they "help" and do not restrict airflow. Until then, IMO they restrict the heck out of the air getting to detonation.
Dont ever use your phone accelerometer to prove any performance gains to the racing crowd, thats just ridiculous
Get concrete evidence such as dyno tests, same day 1/4 runs with/without intake, in order to be taken seriously...
Again, intakes will never net you more than 3-5hp if that for our G35 engines....the only time intakes make big gains is on V8s/muscle cars which are very restricted from factory...
Intakes for us is mainly for sound/looks...want real power gains? Get a 5/16 motordyne spacer
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
