Funny coincidence that the only people debating this mod are the hardcore Crawford fans that take everything Crawdford says as The Word. Call it ignorant? Call it blind loyalty? I'm not sure, but what I do know is that everyone else seems to be extremely happy with the spacer results, and they are being proven time and time again. Yet another independent example:

https://g35driver.com/forums/showthread.php?t=47959

I personally think there is nothing to debate, the dyno results speak for themselves. Period.

 

Its funny but its safe to say the time will heel all wounds. I have my way of thinking and what I learned back in my drag racing days. But quess what this VQ has a mind of its own. I have sorted out a few things here with the pulley install and figured out I got a bad tank of gas plus installed the Gords grounds and made the 6MT respond. I have dome searches and have read everything I can to understand how this spacer works and balances out the flow and IM still confused. There are many people here that believe in it and I will say IM open to understand what it does. The only way I can figure it out is the stock intake needs some help with Volume so it can feed the cylinders and maybe it helps the runners rob from each other for more gains. I do want to be open minded to this. IM here to learn and sometimes I wish I could keep my ways of thinking to my self. Lets see what happens with the future Dyno's and move on. I think somebody will reach the 300 rwhp in time. I believe the biggest gains will be timing and cam timing before stroking this wonderful beast the VQ.

 

What kind of assurances do you offer that this will be a fair test?
Seeing that you already demonstrated a very strong predisposition for Crawford and being a sponsoree, it may be difficult to be objective.
I still need your word that the test will be conducted fairly and without bias or prejudice. The same would also apply with the written test report. In The report should probably mention your background, predisposition and your soon to be revoked sponsorship! (JK on the revoked sponsorship.)

The 1/4" spacer should be included as part of the test. Because if the cast plenum produces ~10-13 HP, this should be real interesting!

As a side: You have no obligation to do this, but it would also be interesting to see what the spacer & cast plenum do together... Just a thought.

They were infected with Motordyne Madness!

EDIT: PS the 1/2" spacer costs 20% more than the 1/4" spacer but produces 42.8% more gains. Thats the right direction!

 

In general, people who are ignorant, stubborn and closed minded will ALWAYS find SOME flaw with something, regardless if that 'something' is FLAWLESS. But to make those types of people HAPPY is pointless and hopeless. Pretty soon the only thing left to complain about in regards to the spacer is its color and/or lack of a gunmetal/polished lip version....

 

I don't think it's such a good idea to have Neffster hold the dyno. To be perfectly fair, we need to find an impartial 3rd party to host the dyno and post reviews. I'd say call up some car magazines and have them do the test independently. I also believe the plenum mod should be done on a BONE STOCK vehicle with no intake, header, Cat, ECU or exhaust mods. That's because most of us want to find out what the plenum mod will do to a bone stock car, not a Crawford, Stillen or Nismo designed modded car.

I don't understand why a dyno held in Florida will be that much more 'conclusive' compared to the numerous dynos that have been done in California over the past months.

 

Cool. This totally gets me off of the hook. I'm sure the 2 guys who just installed their Unichips are now wondering where their ~$1000 went when they got ZERO GAINS on their recent adventures.

Case #1 & Case #2

I previously attempted to de-bunk or prove a theory (at my own expense) and got blasted for it. Now that others did what I wanted to do, it only PROVES that my inside info was correct. Where are all of the "haters" now?

As far as the spacer goes, I believe it works (which is why I don't understand why some of you are really acting like harridan's). I just don't believe that the spacer and the Crawford Plenum can BOTH "Equalize the air flow" in all of the manifold chambers equally. One has to be better than the other. All I wanted to find out was which one really is better when dynoed "independently". If people feel I can't be "unbiased" it's because you have not met me. I bet you also don't trust me with over $5K of your money... fortunately 93 other FGC members didn't have a problem trusting me to handle their finances.

Finally, why would I lose Doug as a sponsor? If there is a better product than the plenum, he still sells the BEST headers and the BEST high flow cats on the market. I don't think that these items are even in question.

 

So the truth comes out...I guess if I was sponsored I would also jump on the crawford bandwagon, even if something better was out on the market, otherwise no more discounted parts

 

The invitation remains open if you change you mind.

I am glad to see that there are people out there willing and smart enough to flush out all the bogus mods on the market. We need more of that. There is too much expensive junk being sold by shady businesses (with no engineering ability) and purchased by people who just don't have the time, effort or money to critically test the stuff.

I'm sure they aren't exactly equal either but either way they both make a huge improvement on the stock plenums "design flaw".

Most of us have not met you and only know you by what you post and how you post it. Use less of the hammer in the beginning and reserve it for when its really needed.


I'm just pulling your chain Neff!

 

The test should be conducted by an independent and unbiased group with a totally stock G35. Then the comparison is on the performance of the XL spacer versus the Crawford Cast Plenum only. Tony sends a spacer for the test, and Doug sends a Crawford cast plenum for the test. Then the results are posted on my350Z and this forum by the independent source.

 

I still don't see how you consider my comments as "hammering". This was the most offensive plenum spacer comment I could find by going back and re-reading my posts.

"I'm not saying the spacer doesn't work, I'm just saying it does not "balance air flow". Some people may not care as long as they get increased power, some will... especially those who are going for equal length headers and want the two mods to work well together."

I based this statement on what I've read and heard via conversations with those who have told me they have done flow bench testing on the stock plenum and spacer approach in the past. It IS possible that this statement could be incorrect. Realizing this, I wanted to get a dyno test going and offered my own time and money (yet again) to perform the VERY IMPARTIAL testing.

Dude, you really don't get it do you? You could not have even read my previous posts because way back on post #28 I said... "It is difficult for me to be 100% impartial since Crawford is a MAJOR SPONSOR to the FGC. It is true that I have been leaning toward Crawford’s side of the argument since the spacer has been developed, yet it is untrue that I’ve been anything other than impartial regarding the spacer."

I was upfront and honest about this fact from the very beginning. You're total lack of attention is apparent to the entire board, not just me. All you had to do was click on the shameless plug of a link that I have in my sig to see who our sponsors are.

You also don't know the first thing about me. I have turned down two sponsorship opportunities already. Sponsors whose products are not G related or those that I personally do not believe in. NO LIE! I actually support the FGC sponsors because I believe in their products, not because they're our sponsors.

I actually don't have anything against the spacer, nor do I have anything against those (with the exception of you) who thus far have commented in this post. Instead of attacking me, why don't you put your energy into trying to help the G35 community, kind of like I'm trying to do. You alone are the reason I coined the term "Hydrazine Harridan's". GOOD DAY! (now that's hammering )

 

Neff: I don't want to go dig it it out, but there were comments in posts you made that were far more aggresive. indicating the spacer wasn't safe for one....

Hey water under the bridge. Spirted back and forth is the only way to identify good mods s bad mods vs useless mods.

I think a good deal of your original question has been answered, that being dyno's that were independant. Some have been posted now, and clearly show the improvement.

I suspect(as I stated prior) that the real difference in the spacer and the crawford is likely very minor - no matter which tests better, it would not be much to talk about.


I am curious - maybe you can point me toward some stuff ?
In looking at cats, headers, etc... I find tests / dynos scattered around in mags and on the net.... but never any of Crawfords ??? Am I missing it ?
I have already opted for the Kinetix cats (for now anyway) and the Stillen Headers.
Though they are only balanced headers and not long pipes as Crawford offers they sure will fit a lot better. They also have some good dyno data.

I was a little turned off on the crawford headers for a couple of reasons
1) I am in California, and so they are technically not legal - the Crawfords are absolutely going to be noticed when the visual inspection is done at smog time.
2) again the fit, being long pipes it is tight - and infact iffy in spome pics I saw.
3) The only data I found on improvement was something to the effect of " 20 peak and 40HP at redline WHEN COMBINED WITH THE HIGH FLOW CATS AND PLENUM"
The cats and plenum give you half of that easy, and no mention was made of what if any exhuast was in use.

I am in no way bad mouthing Crawford, the stuff is outstanding/good/great, etc...
As with anything total solutions / fit / issues like smog, etc effect my choices.
I am looking for more info - ny you can provide would be appreciated

 

Neff,

To be honest I read a lot of threads on this site and notice your 'attitude' towards peoples posts and comments and when you disagree your tone is an 'attacking' one. As we all know, forums, IMs, E-mails can be taken the wrong way as there is such a thing as perception. Most people perceive your tone as attacking and hammering, however I will give you the benefit of the doubt by saying its unintentional. You can 'coin' whatever term you like as long as it keeps you entertained. I dont know Tony/Hydrazine or the Crawford guys and to be honest if Crawford designed a spacer Id have bought it just as quick. To be honest I noticed the sensitivity of this subject for you from the very beginning when you were requesting your freebie (call it what you like). Im proud of you for being sponsored and wish you the best, but bragging is not my style. I apologize for not having checked your sig as my reasons for having a sig are to spot members who I frequently communicate with and vice versa, but it wasnt on my list of things to do. I also find it humorous how easily you get your panties in a knot . Sickone is correct by stating your replies are pretty aggressive....

I apologize for trying to get a reaction out of you.
Im done posting in this thread!

 

Awe, group hug time.

 

Neff, hate to see you in the crossfire here~ Perhaps you should ask Doug from Crawford to post his arguement and data here. Have him voice his opinion and scientific data against Hydrazine's spacer. (which btw, works very well IMO) I understand you want to stand behind Crawford products, but it would be better if Doug were to speak for himself instead of having you taking all the heat on the forum.

 

Neff - I have been a member on these forums longer than you, but do not post quite as often. However, I have read MANY of your posts and have found them to be extremely informative. Your post of your PIAA wheels when you first got them is what pushed me to purchase mine. Therefore, I do respect your contributions on this forum and encourage you to keep them coming.

With that said, understand that you have responded to several threads in an agressive tone as has been mentioned already. At some point, you are going to have to realize there are a lot of people who feel the same way about your posts as of late. Therefore you should consider that perhaps your method of sharing information is not coming across as you intend it to. Maybe you should change your approach, so that in the future you won't have to deal with the criticism that you encountered in this thread.

BTW, not only does the spacer work, but it works very very well. No one, including you or Doug, can deny that fact. Yes, i said fact.