Nissan Power Pup Bullydog - First Impressions
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Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 103
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advancing 2 degrees isn't going to make a lick of difference over time unless the base map isn't setup for 93 and that's what you're running.
As far as I know, with OBDII, you've got 2 maps and a timing multiplier. Your base map is the timing base table via load and rpm.
Your second map is your timing advance table. At any given rpm and load, your timing can swing this table's advance amount.
Then you've got your multiplier which is a learned value, either positive or negative based on the knock your car is reading.
The timing your car is actually going to run is a learned value based on the following equation.
18(base value) + (2(advance table) * .64(multiplier)) = 19.3 degrees of timing.
Increasing the timing advance table by 2 is all well and good and you'll feel the power increase at first because you'll probably be at your max multiplier after the reset.
18 + (4 * 1.0) = 22
However at the higher timing, without compensating via AFR, you'll be having more knock (btw if you can HEAR the knock, it's catastrophically high. Most acceptable knock is unheard by you). This will result in your multiplier scaling down to compensate and could go negative. Most likely you'll end up running the same overall timing after the ECU learns. The trick is to tune the timing AND the AFR in accordance to find the balance for your octane and the most power via timing advance (and sometimes retarding) vs. AFR correction.
I have no faith in these OTS tuners/maps and would highly recommend going a different route unless dyno evidence (after the ECU learns) shows any gains.
FWIW I've used cobb in the past would see much more value with them because at least I know how they tune and you have the ability to purchase their street tuner software and adjust everything yourself and see what's going on with the tune after it's learned.
As far as I know, with OBDII, you've got 2 maps and a timing multiplier. Your base map is the timing base table via load and rpm.
Your second map is your timing advance table. At any given rpm and load, your timing can swing this table's advance amount.
Then you've got your multiplier which is a learned value, either positive or negative based on the knock your car is reading.
The timing your car is actually going to run is a learned value based on the following equation.
18(base value) + (2(advance table) * .64(multiplier)) = 19.3 degrees of timing.
Increasing the timing advance table by 2 is all well and good and you'll feel the power increase at first because you'll probably be at your max multiplier after the reset.
18 + (4 * 1.0) = 22
However at the higher timing, without compensating via AFR, you'll be having more knock (btw if you can HEAR the knock, it's catastrophically high. Most acceptable knock is unheard by you). This will result in your multiplier scaling down to compensate and could go negative. Most likely you'll end up running the same overall timing after the ECU learns. The trick is to tune the timing AND the AFR in accordance to find the balance for your octane and the most power via timing advance (and sometimes retarding) vs. AFR correction.
I have no faith in these OTS tuners/maps and would highly recommend going a different route unless dyno evidence (after the ECU learns) shows any gains.
FWIW I've used cobb in the past would see much more value with them because at least I know how they tune and you have the ability to purchase their street tuner software and adjust everything yourself and see what's going on with the tune after it's learned.
Registered User
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 918
Likes: 3
From: Chandler AZ
but doesn't the new maps/tunes adjust the ecu's calibration points to allow the new specs/settings to be the new calibration points, therefore not settling back to a near stock point?
I can understand the timing comments; this isn't the first ecu to learn and it's been done many times beofre...
i'm just struggling on which route to go. i'm near UpRev a couple times a week, but not sure with my lack of mods (just exhaust), not sure there's a need for a full custom tune. Also considering the Cobb but the cost of the Bully Dog is nice as well. I think UpRev's power gains aren't as potent out of the box as the Cobb or Bully.
There's a Cobb place not far as well, not sure what they'll do for me there on site as well. Come to think of it, I may stop by there.... which will probably end up in me spending money.
I can understand the timing comments; this isn't the first ecu to learn and it's been done many times beofre...
i'm just struggling on which route to go. i'm near UpRev a couple times a week, but not sure with my lack of mods (just exhaust), not sure there's a need for a full custom tune. Also considering the Cobb but the cost of the Bully Dog is nice as well. I think UpRev's power gains aren't as potent out of the box as the Cobb or Bully.
There's a Cobb place not far as well, not sure what they'll do for me there on site as well. Come to think of it, I may stop by there.... which will probably end up in me spending money.
If you are talking about the Cobb in Plano, they can install and custom tune the AP on-site. They have a fully functional AWD (Mustang) dyno. I don't think they have a tuner on-site all the time, but they have some of their tuners rotate through there. I have been by there before, and I recommend checking it out.
The power pup works for power. It makes the car pull a little harder like the others have said, but I was mainly getting it for fuel economy. With my, curious, heavy foot on the pedal most of the time, I am not seeing any mile per gallon. If no one wants to jump on this deal, I will just return it.
ya dude this is def not for saving mpg. as in any mod you put on i dont expect mpg increase as i will be driving the car harder and faster. so its a big plus for meee
Registered User
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
most dealers will do a +2 for you at request and usually $$
I am interested in this, what kind of maps do you guys have, I have an 05 it seems most people have it on their HR, i believe my redline is lower if i remember so it would definitely help me out.
I had the Cobb AP with a tune by p and l in chicago in my 06 subaru and had no problems whatsoever (gains of 55-95whp throughout the powerband with turboback on 110 octane), its a shame cobb will not set up for our cars. My friend has a speed3 and they just told him they are closing down their MS3 tuning program altogether, out of luck. I do not mind the mpgs - 1 or 2 if it does show reliable results...torn on what to do
I am interested in this, what kind of maps do you guys have, I have an 05 it seems most people have it on their HR, i believe my redline is lower if i remember so it would definitely help me out.
I had the Cobb AP with a tune by p and l in chicago in my 06 subaru and had no problems whatsoever (gains of 55-95whp throughout the powerband with turboback on 110 octane), its a shame cobb will not set up for our cars. My friend has a speed3 and they just told him they are closing down their MS3 tuning program altogether, out of luck. I do not mind the mpgs - 1 or 2 if it does show reliable results...torn on what to do
Cobb does have tuning for our cars. At least that's what thread states:
https://g35driver.com/forums/tech-07...ing-ready.html
https://g35driver.com/forums/tech-07...ing-ready.html
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i just put my car back to stock last night, i was taking it to the dealer. and usually when you do any upgrade you automatically feel it or so you think that you have more power.
but in this case i took it on the highway and im like wtf wheres my power then im like oo right stock settings. so it does make some power gains.
but in this case i took it on the highway and im like wtf wheres my power then im like oo right stock settings. so it does make some power gains.
i just put my car back to stock last night, i was taking it to the dealer. and usually when you do any upgrade you automatically feel it or so you think that you have more power.
but in this case i took it on the highway and im like wtf wheres my power then im like oo right stock settings. so it does make some power gains.
but in this case i took it on the highway and im like wtf wheres my power then im like oo right stock settings. so it does make some power gains.
ha, negative butt dyno..
u make a good point about "automatically" feeling it.