Yes, I can read that each line is 10hp. According to your plot your making gain appears to be around 17wtq and that lasts for about 150-200rpms. That's hardly a useable gain.

As for Cartest, it's what the NHRA Big Dawgs use plus lots of road racers. It's very accurate because of all the data that can be input. A G-tech is just a simple accelerometer which can either by setup wrong or biased by the user (wrong pitch on the windshield, up/down grade, different conditions, road surface, etc). Take a G-Tech the next time you go to the track. You'll see what I mean.

 

How big of a hypocrite can one person be?

You discount data collection (in the form of G-tech times) and SOP feeling for a FREAKING SIMULATION?

You have officially turrned the corner and graduated from mag-racer to hypocritical computer racer.

If you had done more than sniff exhaust at the myriad of dyno sessions you have attended (chuckle), you would be aware of the variations and interpretations of the data at hand. Temp normalizing, re-strapping, burn runs, etc. are all part of the data collection process.

--------DATA THAT NEEDS TO BE INTERPRETED---------

Just like a G-tech run.

Do you shut you car off right after the finish line at the track? No.

Because you know how the data is collected, and it is beneficial to your ego to get the highest MPH indicated, even though it doesn't affect your ET's. Don't lie, I've seen you post this very advice.

If you take into account HOW the G-tech measures, it can provide accurate, repeatable data as valid as a dyno for tuning purposes.


Now, you've made the big leap to full-fledged SIMULATIONS, with no regard to captured data at all. This is the ultimate domain of the Mag-racer. Numbers generated without actuall having to get in your car at all.....nice.

If, by your estimation, G-tech numbers are worthless, then the "data" you have (snicker) generated is about as worthwhile as bellybutton lint.

 

You are neither, so where does that leave us?

 

Hi Hydrazine,

First off, I'm really not trying to put down your product because:

1) I think you're an honest guy
2) You do make useful mods
3) I think this mod probably will improve normal day to day driving and give the Rev-Up motor that lower rpm power it gave up.

I guess the main issue I have with using Klumzyee's dyno is that his was done on a Dynopak where as Russ' was done on a Dynojet. On average, a Dynapak is going to show a bit more power because the measurement is taken from the hub and without 50lbs of rotating wheel/tire where as the Dynojet measures the power at the ground. Both Klumzyee's and Russ' plots are very similar so it does help understand the trend in power above 6600rpms. With that said, I've always used Dynojet numbers for Cartest because I've felt it was more accurate because it accounts for all drivetrain losses including the wheels. You can correct Dynapak numbers for the addition of wheels, but it's still not as accurate a reading with the wheels mounted to the car.

Another thing to consider here is the time and rpm at which the car is accelerating through each specific gear. I don't have the Cartest file with me right now, but I would assume a 6MT G35 probably lands each WOT shift close to or above 5000rpms assuming a 7,000rpm shift. 1st gear is the only time in the race where the sub 4,800rpm area would be used. Basically this means any gains below 5,000rpms really wouldn't be used much in a flat out race. In 1st gear, the car accelerates from 4,000-7,000rpms in about 1 second. That's hardly enough time to take advantage of the new found gains or even the losses. You're talking about maybe a 1' to 3' pull in 1st gear on the stock Rev motor. As the gears get longer, the time you spend in the gear increases; however, the gears are pretty short and each subsequent shift is most likely landing at or above 5,000rpms. This means you're not able to ride that larger power from 4,000-4,800rpms. The impact of the loss in power above 6,000rpms becomes more signifcant in each gear higher gear too. In the end, the additional power from 5,000-6,000rpms is laregely negated by the loss of power from 6,000-6,800rpms.

Has for your average power calculation, it's my understanding that the Rev-up limiter is at a true 7,000-7,1000rpms. It appears to me that you're using a 6,700-6,800rpm limiter to calculate the average power. Now I understand that you're using a lower shift point for the modded motor, but it's my opinion you're not using the ideal shift point (7,000) for the stock motor. That skews the data a bit in favor of the mod. By extending the curve out to 7,000rpms, it would definitely improve the average power of the stock motor. Every 7,000rpm dyno plot I've seen with the stock Rev-up motor shows power holding steady right to the fuel cut. Another thing is calculating ideal shift points in relation to average power. The gear/torque multiplication have a lot to do with how a car is going to accelerate and often times this means overshooting peak power by 200-700rpms depending on gear.

In the end, your average numbers will be higher than mine because we're using two different types of dynos and two different cars; however, the plots trends are nearly identical. Also, for what ever reason, Church's Dynapak shows significantly higher numbers than any other Dynapak I've seen. This isn't necessarily a bad thing because everything is relative. A 20hp gain on their Dynapak appears to be about a 12hp gain a Dynojet. Again, that's one of the reasons your numbers and mine vary by a large degree. Another reason, like you alluded to earlier, is that I had to use a larger resolultion for the data. You've got 1rpm incremental data where as I don't therefore your numbers will be more accurate. In the whole scheme of things, it looks to me like this mod is good for an average power increase of 1 to 4hp. To me, that means the car won't be quicker.

I guess we'll just wait and see if and how much improvement the cars make at the track.

I'll end my part of the discussion here as to not make for a flame-fest thread because of my relationship with the more "insightful" G35 gurus in here (Chicago X, DaveO, G35_TX). If anyone has questions and/or wants to tell me I'm full of crap, please PM me.

 

Where the variables are even worse than a dyno!

LOL

 

Whiny PM sent to Mr. X:

 

this thread is tedious! what is this "new" mod? 27 pages is just sick...

 

The new mod is a gerbil that goes in a temp safe container next to your pulleys to help transmit more power. j/k. everyone is still waiting. some know, some have educated guesses. I, like many here, want to see what this is doing on the track. I've been reading what has been said about the useable power during racing/quarter mile times etc.. and I believe DaveB has a really good point(s). I am not trying to discredit the product either. It's currently on my buffer list to get as I find out more info. I just think he really brings up a valid point(s).

 

There’s a rumor going around that this mod is powered by lighting, striking a clock at midnight, causing 1.21 jigawatts to pass though the lower plenum.

This is...of course..only a rumor.

 

Whoa!!...that's heavy Doc

 

What is it with everything being heavy? Is there something wrong with the gravitational pull of the planet in the next century?

 

Take...*huff*puff* ...your damn hands off her!

Meh. Where else can this thread go until the debut? lol

 

Dave take your own advice and back your own claims up. You have yet to do so on any of your posts.

 

ChicagoX,

Well said IMO. I invite you to join me in not wasting anymore of your time on people that aren't worth 30 seconds of your time.

DaveO

 

I guess the main issue I have with using Klumzyee's dyno is that his was done on a Dynopak where as Russ' was done on a Dynojet.
You only need to do a little math to find the type of dyno used is irrelevant. Performance Nissan measured it at their own Dynajet shop and showed a baseline at about ~265HP with gains identical to Ericks. (see first page of thread)

Another thing to consider here is the time and rpm at which the car is accelerating through each specific gear.
%Gains are %gains regardless of the time frame. As you pass through the RPM range if you get X% average gain, you get Y% better times.

I don't have the Cartest file with me right now, but I would assume a 6MT G35 probably lands each WOT shift close to or above 5000rpms assuming a 7,000rpm shift.
See the table below for the actual RPM as the gears are shifted. All calculations were made assuming a worst case shift at redline. (not even optimizing for a short shift)

1st gear is the only time in the race where the sub 4,800rpm area would be used. Basically this means any gains below 5,000rpms really wouldn't be used much in a flat out race.
Drag in the G is a launch from 2500 RPM to about 6500-6900. But in addition to drag racing. Its also about significantly improved daily driving. Everybody who installed one of these and came back after a quick spin, came back with a huge grin on their face. Thats what counts more than anything else.

Performance Nissan was a big skeptic until they dynod it on a 350Z and took it for a drive.... Andy@Perf came back with the same huge grin on his face.
It was either the mod or he smoked some crack really quick before driving back to the dyno shop.
I guess everybody who installed one must have smoked some crack after the install. At least they liked it.

In 1st gear, the car accelerates from 4,000-7,000rpms in about 1 second. That's hardly enough time to take advantage of the new found gains or even the losses. You're talking about maybe a 1' to 3' pull in 1st gear on the stock Rev motor.
Cool. A 1' to 3' pull in first gear means you are winning by that much in just first gear. The added pull will be proportionaly more with each consecutive gear.

As the gears get longer, the time you spend in the gear increases; however, the gears are pretty short and each subsequent shift is most likely landing at or above 5,000rpms.
See chart below for actual shift points and actual analysis of the dyno data.


It appears to me that you're using a 6,700-6,800rpm limiter to calculate the average power. That skews the data a bit in favor of the mod. By extending the curve out to 7,000rpms, it would definitely improve the average power of the stock motor.
The plot shows the 4th gear RPM range used in a 1/4 mile run. I can expand it if needed but the finish line is crossed at about 6100 RPM.
See Klumzyees post on the first page of this thread. The plot extends to 6900 RPM. Both Stock and MREV run parallel beyond 6750 RPM. See the table below to see that I account for it in 3rd gear.

Every 7,000rpm dyno plot I've seen with the stock Rev-up motor shows power holding steady right to the fuel cut.
None of them go to 7000 RPM, the actual cut is at 6900, but for the majority generally do hold steady.But I've also seen them go down slightly.

Also, for what ever reason, Church's Dynapak shows significantly higher numbers than any other Dynapak I've seen.
Church Dynapack REVUPs typically come in at ~270HP. The Performance Nissan Dynajet baseline came in at 265HP. Thats a 1.8% difference. That means you can scale the gains by 1.8%. Therefore, if the MREV 4th gear average gain is 8.209HP on the Dynapack, you can expect to see 8.056 HP on the Dynajet or a 0.15HP nitpick difference.
Even with a peak of 20 HP the difference will be only be 0.36 HP.

This isn't necessarily a bad thing because everything is relative. A 20hp gain on their Dynapak appears to be about a 12hp gain a Dynojet.
Completely wrong. You're throwing around armchair conjecture with no real analysis or effort to make a reasonable claim.
12hp/20hp equals a 40% difference. You are saying you see REVUP engines doing 162HP on your dyno?...
Just do a little math to see the MREV gains are real.

I guess we'll just wait and see if and how much improvement the cars make at the track.
Expect any 1/4 mile improvements to be on the order of a tenth of a second. Nobody said MREV was NOS or a turbo. Its an NA mod... and probably the most effective NA mod available.