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2005 6MT Coupes.. +18wHP +22/29wTQ!? - A Thanks To Tony, Motordyne Engineering

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  #766  
Old 12-16-2005, 10:14 PM
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OCG35... Let's move on now.

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  #767  
Old 12-17-2005, 12:04 AM
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can someone explain again the difference, b/w copper and regular - i don't understand the concent of a CCV and copper heater. How do you adjust the CCV from hot to cold???? Also, say you live in SoCAl where it is never colder than about 50 degrees. are you gonna have to be adjusting it? And finally, i saw somoene say that there is a "penalty" for the copper? - does the copper rob power?
 
  #768  
Old 12-17-2005, 02:32 AM
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Originally Posted by OCG35
It is posted... And reviewed many times over in many threads. The way I see this and all mods is: If a vast number of people have tried and tested a product and have positive results and opinions, there must be some validity. Not every person using these mods are sheep and ignorant and just spend the money because one (or a few) individuals say they should. I've seen soooo many pages of debate on issues that have 90% in favor and 10% opposed. It just gets ridiculous. If you don’t like the factors that are presented - it's simple, don't use the mod. There are plenty of people that have had positive experiences and that should not consistently be met with debate.

Let's move on now.
But do you not think people should see both sides to a story and judge for themselves?

The automotive performance parts (things to improve power) market is about 50% voodoo and 50% true advertised gains. I'm in no way saying that Tony is trying to BS people with this mod because he's always been straight forward about the changes/gains/losses of his mods. I don't even think he claims improved acceleration or power with the thermo parts. My point is a lot of companies prey on people's lack of understanding about cars in general and they use that for their monetary gain. Most "car" people really don't know much about cars. This thread is a prime example. They look under a hood and see a whole bunch vacuum lines, electrical connectors, and hunks of metal. They buy a part, unbolt the OEM part, and install the new part, hope for the best, and believe the advertizing and it can be hit or miss in terms of gains.

Without knowing both sides and some research into how and why the mod is suppose to work, a lot of people get screwed out of a lot of money. There is a great thread on my350.com with people responding to what gains work, which mods don't do much of anything, and how much money they wasted.
 
  #769  
Old 12-17-2005, 02:47 AM
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Originally Posted by G35_TX
www.sah2o.com/intakeproject.htm has my results on the temps as well. There was a huge drop in temp. You could not keep your hand on the intake manifold before the thermo gaskets. Now there hasn't been a time it has been HOT. And thats even after racing at the AUTOX which puts more heat on the engine that the 1/4 does.

There is a way. And again you don't know what your talking about.
I guess you're definition of huge drop in temp and my definition are completely different. Taken directly from your site:

Stock intake manifiold:
Outside Temperature 67 degrees. Car was driven hard for 30 minutes.

Upper Intake Plenum 112 degrees
Lower Intake Collector 155 degrees
Throttle Body 112 degrees
Intake Tube 108 Degrees
Motordyne Iso-thermal kit:
Outside Temperature 69 degrees. Car was driven hard for 20 minutes.

Upper Intake Plenum 90 degrees
Lower Intake Collector 122 degrees
Throttle Body 89 degrees
Intake Tube 94 degrees
Motordyne Iso-thermal kit:
Outside Temperature 73 degrees. Car was driven hard for 30 minutes. (30 mile drive across town on highways then city streets).

Upper Intake Plenum 100 degrees
Lower Intake Collector 151 degrees
Throttle Body 99 degrees
Intake Tube 103 Degrees
Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but here is what I'm seeing with the stock setup vs the Iso-thermal setup on average:

Upper Intake Plenum: -12 to -22 degrees favoring ISO-thermal
Lower Intake Collector: -5 to -33 degrees favoring ISO-thermal
Throttle Body: -13 to -23 degrees favoring ISO-thermal
Intake Tube: -4 to -14 degrees favoring ISO-thermal

That's real data that supports that the ISO-thermal kit really does work; however the average % difference overall vs stock is about 12% in temp reduction. Will it make a difference in the way your car drives? I don't think so, but that's my opinion.

Great site though.
 
  #770  
Old 12-17-2005, 09:21 AM
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Originally Posted by DaveB
But do you not think people should see both sides to a story and judge for themselves?
Who are you,the mod police?

You have taken it upon yourself to discredit every mod available, short of FI, yet you have none yourself.

You quote all of these wonderful numbers, yet you've made your conclusions from the 10-15 passes you've made in your car.

Hmmm....who should I believe? Someone who has literally dozens of dynos and several hundred happy customers, or one malcontent with no mods and less than twenty passes on his car......

I'll go with the empirical data, thanks.
 
  #771  
Old 12-17-2005, 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by DaveB
But do you not think people should see both sides to a story and judge for themselves?
I 100% agree with this Dave. I'm a skeptical customer on everything I buy too. And its also why I stick with truth in advertising.

There shouldn't be a problem unless you see anything incorrect, misleading or false. And if you really dig into my past posts both here and on MY350Z, you will see I vastly underated product performance when some of the competition went full throttle in the other direction. It put Motordyne at a short term advertising disadvantage, but I wasn't about to claim something that couldn't be supported by independant testing. You can also look at the Motordyne website product specs and compare it to the independant dynos and reviews.

Its not like Motordyne is in the business of tailpipe spinners, gas tank magnets or turbonators. All the parts have a specific design function and objective. They are fully tested before public release, under rated and customers are fully encouraged to do their own objective testing.

What else can be done?
 

Last edited by Hydrazine; 12-17-2005 at 12:07 PM.
  #772  
Old 12-17-2005, 11:56 AM
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I truly believe that DaveB is sincere in his actions . . . And as such, I think we can all appreciate his attempts in presenting the other side, if you will.

At the same time, I also believe that these boards are cemented with members, whom can determine what is real versus what is snake oil. Evident by the fact of numerous reviews of other products. Whether they be Hi Flow Cats, Z Tube, Drop-in Filters, Plenums, Exhaust Systems, etc. . . . I know that the majority of members are sophisticated enough to discern whether their installed mods afford any real world gains . . . Or are people too naive to the discern the difference for themselves, DaveB?
 
  #773  
Old 12-17-2005, 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by DaveB
Most "car" people really don't know much about cars. This thread is a prime example.
While I won't exactly argue with this first statement, your arrogance to make the second one begs that I ask one question - Who? If you are going to make such a statement then name 'em. Not that I particularly care of your opinion of who knows and who doesn't but I am the kind of person who believes in being straight up with people. So let's see the list?
 
  #774  
Old 12-17-2005, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Hydrazine
I 100% agree with this Dave. I'm a skeptical customer on everything I buy too. And its also why I stick with truth in advertising.

There shouldn't be a problem unless you see anything incorrect, misleading or false. And if you really dig into my past posts both here and on MY350Z, you will see I vastly underated plenum spacer performance when some of the competition went full throttle in the other direction. You can also look at the Motordyne website product specs and compare it to the independant dynos and reviews.

Its not like Motordyne is in the business of tailpipe spinners, gas tank magnets or turbonators. All the parts have a specific design function and objective. They are fully tested before public release, under rated and customers are fully encouraged to do their own objective testing.

What else can be done?
Tony, I wouldn't think there would be anything else that you could do. You are the most thorough and upfront person that I have ever dealt with regarding their products. I personally feel comfortable with your information because I KNOW that you will give the good and the bad when there is both. Your ethics in that regard are quite refreshing and hard to find.
 
  #775  
Old 12-17-2005, 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by ChicagoX
Who are you,the mod police?
Yep. Got the badge too.

You have taken it upon yourself to discredit every mod available, short of FI, yet you have none yourself.
A few month back I tried the Grounding Gear 5AT kit. It didn't do anything for my 03 therefore I sold it. I'm married, 31, support a stay home wife/mother and 1 y/o. Money is tight when you're making house and car payments plus investing/saving for the future. I don't have a lot of money to be throwing into my car right now. Believe me, I'd have far more mods if I had the disposable income. There is plenty of reliable data supporting the claims for the spacers/plenums, true dual exhausts, ECU flash, and headers. If I had the money right now, I'd many of those mods on my car plus a set of wheels and the Aero bumper. But when you've got a child, at least for me, it's hard to justify throwing down $800 on an exhaust when I could be putting that money into his college fund account, etc. With my past cars, I basically bought what I wanted and when. That changed with a child. I'm not complaining though. Regardless, I sincerely believe there are mods out there that work and I've told you this about 600 times now.

With said, I've also done a crapload of mods to my prior cars that were basically a waste of money and time. I've done the intake heat isolation wrapping, throttle body bypasses, etc. In the end, all it did was junk up the engine bay and resulted in very minimal temp changes and absolutely no change in driveablility or 1/4 mile performance.


Originally Posted by DaveB
The manifold might not be quite as hot as stock, but it will probably be within 10-20 degrees.
Originally Posted by ChicagoX
Do you have any data to back that up?
I just saw this. Interesting how I had never seen G35_TX's Iso-thermal data until late last night, but my estimated temp reduction was right on, wasn't it? Owned
 

Last edited by DaveB; 12-17-2005 at 01:24 PM.
  #776  
Old 12-17-2005, 01:12 PM
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Originally Posted by trey's wife
While I won't exactly argue with this first statement, your arrogance to make the second one begs that I ask one question - Who? If you are going to make such a statement then name 'em. Not that I particularly care of your opinion of who knows and who doesn't but I am the kind of person who believes in being straight up with people. So let's see the list?
You really want me to make a list and single people out? Just in the past 2 days I could easily pull 20-30 member names of people and their posts/responses clearly showing their lack of knowledge or their total admittence that they simply "don't know", but what is the point? What you're asking is for me to post names and make them look bad. That's not the point here so please remove it from your brain that I'm trying to say these people are below me since they don't know much about cars. I'm not trying to belittle anyone and I'm sure not going to post up their names just to prove I'm right on this. I think most of the gear heads on this site would agree with me.
 
  #777  
Old 12-17-2005, 01:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Hydrazine
I 100% agree with this Dave. I'm a skeptical customer on everything I buy too. And its also why I stick with truth in advertising.

There shouldn't be a problem unless you see anything incorrect, misleading or false. And if you really dig into my past posts both here and on MY350Z, you will see I vastly underated product performance when some of the competition went full throttle in the other direction. It put Motordyne at a short term advertising disadvantage, but I wasn't about to claim something that couldn't be supported by independant testing. You can also look at the Motordyne website product specs and compare it to the independant dynos and reviews.

Its not like Motordyne is in the business of tailpipe spinners, gas tank magnets or turbonators. All the parts have a specific design function and objective. They are fully tested before public release, under rated and customers are fully encouraged to do their own objective testing.

What else can be done?
Tony, I'll just say your company is one of few that actually backs up their claims with third party data.

I don't necessarily think that some of the products will really improve performance, but your products do exactly what their advertized to do. Nothing more, nothing less.

I wish more companies were managed as good as yours. It would make the market far more friendly to the customer.
 

Last edited by DaveB; 12-17-2005 at 01:25 PM.
  #778  
Old 12-17-2005, 03:02 PM
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Thanks for the props... I started out just like everyone else on this board looking for the real deal on mods too. It's actually the reason I looked into making my own mod for personal use but it just expanded from there.

I completely understand the justifiable skepticism and the need to be frugal with your hard earned $$$. I'm there too. If I'm lucky, maybe I can quit working at Boeing and start working Motordyne full time.
And with time I will make even better and newer stuff!

EDIT:
The good thing about having worked in rocket propulsion and aerospace is that I can see how a lot of the science, dicipline and technology can be applied to automotive science. A lot can be done to introduce new ways of making power and improving flow systems. Its just a matter of time before I can get some really cool new stuff introduced into the market. And it will all happen on the VQ first!
 

Last edited by Hydrazine; 12-17-2005 at 03:13 PM.
  #779  
Old 12-17-2005, 03:06 PM
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Originally Posted by bugmenot
can someone explain again the difference, b/w copper and regular - i don't understand the concent of a CCV and copper heater. How do you adjust the CCV from hot to cold???? Also, say you live in SoCAl where it is never colder than about 50 degrees. are you gonna have to be adjusting it? And finally, i saw somoene say that there is a "penalty" for the copper? - does the copper rob power?
Bugmenot,

Click on this link for a whole lot of Q&A on both the Iso Thermal and Copper Iso Thermal: http://www.my350z.com/forum/showthread.php?t=142359

It will say a lot more than I can write in any single post. Let me know if you have any questions.

Thanks,
Tony

EDIT: The Copper doesn't rob power in any way but it is much more convienent and effective if you live in areas where it ever gets cold. The standard Iso Thermal is a way to do the same thing but is only recommended if you live in a relatively warm environment like So. Cal., Florida, Hawaii or similar.
 

Last edited by Hydrazine; 12-17-2005 at 04:10 PM.
  #780  
Old 12-17-2005, 06:17 PM
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Originally Posted by DaveB
That's not the point here so please remove it from your brain that I'm trying to say these people are below me since they don't know much about cars. I'm not trying to belittle anyone and I'm sure not going to post up their names just to prove I'm right on this. I think most of the gear heads on this site would agree with me.
See this is where we disagree. Whether by design or simply effect you often come across that this is exactly what you are trying to do. The post I was referring to was case in point. Maybe it's just me, maybe not - but that post in particular came out EXACTLY like you were trying to belittle people. If you are going to belittle someone just come right out and do it rather than half @$$ it. Regardless of the subject or target if you are going to step in the ring don't sit on the rope!

The thing is that there are likely quite a few people here who may not have lots of experience with a VQ but do have experience with motors. I don't claim to know everything about the VQ but I will stand and claim that I know a pretty damn good bit about engines in general. There are somethings that are different about the VQ but the basic principles about engines are the same. I am not saying you were referring to me in your statement - I am just using myself as an example (just want to clarify that).

Assuming you are sincere about not trying to belittle and about not putting down every mod - just realize how your actions read and take note. Should it bother you - make a change. If it doesn't - fair enough, continue as before. Just a little constructive information and intended as just that.
 


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