i think thats prob the ss box which isnt needed now that you have the cobb.

good luck and keep us updated!

 

Yeah that's what I was hoping.

It was really, really tough taking it in and handing over the keys- I know what was said earlier in this thread about trusting someone to do the work... most agreed they couldn't and that's why they do it themselves.

Funny- because the guy I was talking to has been working on cars for awhile but just finished his certification. First day back the owner walks up to him, hands him the instructions and tells him to start reading because the car is coming in later. First project back is installing a twin turbo in a G35. Pretty cool, and I could tell he was pretty happy about it.

He also said it was no problem getting those shims in place for the fronts- because that camber is still a problem.

Red gave me some photos of his fuel system installed- because it's his system, rails, return line... regulator... everything- and that was good thinking! I printed them out and handed them over and they were impressed- so kudos to Red. Apparently he DOES in fact know what he's talking about.

 

I can't wait to see it done man, going to be good!

Though if you show up at the summer meet with an awesome TT installed and that same ill fitting bumper I'm going to smack you upside the head

Can't wait to see pics!

 

Argh... you just HAD to bring that up didn't ya! I've made peace with it though I'll never, EVER buy fiberglass parts again. Believe you me!

I won't be out there again until Thursday- I'm not sure if they're going to send progress photos, but I'm going to ask them to. If so I'll post for your viewing pleasure (or displeasure, I suppose it depends on how the build goes.)

 

This sounds like a great build, leaving lots of room for improvement. Quality parts are not cheap but it's a much needed sacrifice, in my opinion, for a reliable car - I love hearing when stuff is done right the first time! I'm making a trip out to the island this summer, would love to see this beauty when it's finished...and obviously get a ride

Out of curiosity, what are the internals generally rated to?

 

That is a pretty open question depending on alot of things tuner being the main one in my opinion but the FI kit factors in as well as many other things.

I would run 500whp no second thoughts on a stock engine in reality 400/400 is very safe but they can hold in the 450 range quite reliably with proper supporting mods and a good tuner. Some people have blown motors at less and many have pushed it much higher it is not really a one answer for all situations.

 

Well, this is the collection of emails that I've woken up to:

Hi Ian, yes things are progressing with the g......lot more work than i thought,,,,,,couple things we need to chat about, would like to remove the aftermarket ground wires as they are redundant....also, with the turbos, the wastgates that came with the turbos are opening at around 10psi and should open around 7, do you know if these turbos are for the kit or are they ones that will work with the kit, as far as i can see these wastegates will need to be replaced.....



Hey Ian,

We have confirmed that your wastegates are rated at 12-14 psi, they are part number 480009-6. From our info we've gathered, your kit is supposed to be rated at 7 psi for your stock motor. So...

you need something like this:

http://www.frsport.com/FRS-Universal...09_p_9624.html

We can only assume that these turbos were off a "built" motor, or a stock one that went "boom".... :-D



Hi Ian, further to my last email, contacted jim wolf about the kit, from this info, we have some large concerns, the three areas are, 1, the turbos are larger than the ones that come in the kit, thus the wastgate problem, designed to work with an engine with lower compression, 2, fuel system, changing from returnless to return style was built for a low compression engine and you may have huge problems with tunning with these injectors and system, 3, sounds like the intercooler will require new plumbing in some areas, and fitment of the intercooler may be problematic, as we can see already, when triing to drill the 3" holes for the intercooler, they will interfere with the air conditioning tubing......

Not sure which way you would like to go.....we would recommend going with the factory pieces from jwt....



Sigh.

So yes- we're into our first problems. I'm not sure if they're assuming it was a 530bb... but it sounds like everything is for the 700bb kit but they're looking at it as a 530 maybe? Anyway, I'm going to call them in a bit here but any feedback from the network would be a big help!

Edit:

I've just talked to the shop and they were aware of the different kit sizes- even the guys at JWT are saying that with the built fuel, enormous injectors and large turbos... I may have bitten off more than I can chew. And I can almost hear Gord slapping his forehead shouting "noooooooooooooooooooo don't chicken out you puss!" I'm still forging ahead but they made a couple good recommendations.

From JWT: Even if you can dummy down those 700 turbos, they'll be so choked down and inefficient, while still delivering so much air that it will cause problems. The intercooler from the 350 will be less efficient than that designed for the G.

Apparently the shop did have to lift the engine 3" to get the turbos to get in the ballpark, and even then nothing seemed to be coming together. Apparently the fuel system is already in... but JWT has stated that having the return system causes problems as the system gets downgraded... and needs to be "de-tuned" so much that it again causes enormous headaches.

I did toss out the idea of just getting it over with and building the bottom end- wondering if that was going to be the same as purchasing the replacement parts for the turbo. To be blunt, as much as I am into spending good money for good things- a built motor isn't going to be THAT good.

Additionally- I don't have the experience that guys like Sasha, Dustin, Gord and so many others have to deal with the leaks, the blown up motors ( ) and tweaking. So as much as I want to keep the fuel system in after all the trouble Dustin went to get it to me... if I downgrade the working parts to the 530 it'll be too much fuel... especially with the 680 injectors I have from Gord.

So I think the course of action I'm leaning towards is: Purchase new intercoolers (G35 variety), 530bb turbos, and take out the fuel system. Maybe we leave the rails in and get smaller injectors-

Anyway... I'll post photos if I get some over the weekend.

 

Well it just seems the shop is a little over there head. Which is no big deal just have to work with them to get through it.

Since you are building the twin of my car stick with what you bought and things will be ok. I have the 350z kit on my car and yes as i stated to you before you will have to get them to tweak the piping. If you want to spend the extra money on getting a new IC and piping that is your choice but it fit on my car. As far as the A/C lines go they are very flexible and can be moved out of the way. Use Gord's,Sasha's and my cars as examples we all have 3" piping going through the same spot.

The G35 IC is split in the middle and if you have a big opening in your front bumper it will not look very good IMO.

With the fuel system stay with what you have and run the 700bb's. I have done it for 3 years now. With the right supporting mods like fuel and some other mods and of course the right tune it will last. Don't let them talk you out of what you have. You have all very good parts your car is not the first to have gone through this and it will make it

I made 450whp with the setup you are trying to put in. Use all the parts you have now, spend the extra money to make the piping fit and when all the work is done make sure you have a tune done to it.

 

That is the gay. Your paying them to replicate someone elses build, which already proved itself to work, only for them to second guess. I agree with what red said, they're in over their heads.

 

I wasn't sure if you had a built motor or not Dustin so I thought maybe it had something to do with you being high rev and me being DE...

You saw what I was saying about them having to lift the motor to get the turbos in? Did you have to do that too? I'm just wondering if there are other things at play here... and not being there to look at it and get my boots on the ground doesn't help.

If we're replicating a build... is there any way to get the knowledge you have from doing yours to these guys? You guys speak the same language... I'm still learning the alphabet. I've got the weekend to mull things over and I'm not going to lie this is an interesting couple of hard spots to be caught in between.

If I go the safe route and switch out with the 530s... I end up getting a turbo I can push and use and probably be happy with. If I stick the route I'm on... well- there is potential for lots of bad things but then again this is FI right?

My only cause for concern with duplicating the build you have Dustin is I'm not sure how much of a difference that high rev version of the engine makes versus the DE. If it has nothing to do with compression and those factors that both JWT and this shop are concerned about then hey... let the fun begin. I see a rated ratio of 10.6 in your engine vs 10.3:1 in mine... Also, your engine internals have been upgraded to deal with the extra HP- in my research I'm seeing up to 80% of them just on the stock block



Discussion on this is also going on over at 350Z: http://my350z.com/forum/forced-induc...ml#post8973145

 

Wow, such trials and tribulations. Hang in there, Eno, and listen to Gord and Dustin.

No expert here but I don't think rev-up vs DE makes an appreciable difference -- Gord's car is not revup IIRC and .3 compression is next to nothing. I *think* a slightly lower compression ratio is probably desirable, in fact.

Bump for more info from guys (not me) who actually know what they're talking about.

 

ARGH... darn weekends and guys having things to do on a Friday night other than nursing my jangled nerves! :suicide:


I know I've got some of the best guys around to depend on and I also know if things go south I could just trailer the car back to Alberta where it belongs and maybe, just maybe, someone would help me put the ol' girl back together again.

Poor car is going to have quite the "auto" biography by the time it's done.

With that being said- Red / Gord / Sasha... anyone. Let's say the shop is a bit over their heads- they didn't seem to have any trouble with the fuel system- it's in already as is a bunch of the peripheral stuff. If you guys have any photos of your build processes that show the way the intercooler piping was routed around the AC line and so on I'm sure it would be a big help for both them and me.

 

I am on all stock block with no forged internals or anything like that here just have some supporting mods and i am making 473whp+.

Yes there is a potential with any turbo kit or aftermarket part for things to go south but done right and with the right tune it should be all good.

As far as the rev-up vs de there is nothing major between the two. A few little things but nothing that would affect the 700 kit on your car vs being on my car.

I would just stick with what you have tell them to rework the piping and get it done.

The AC line are very movable and they will go where you want them to just don't kink them.

Its not a easy install by any means, i know when LS was installing mine the mechanic threw a wrench more then a few times i was told installing mine along with cutting up some tools to get it in there.

 

What's the take on the wastegates they were suggesting? I know the magic number we were working with was 10psi... they're saying 7psi and the ones in the kit are 12-14. Do we stick with the stock ones and set up the tuner in a red light district for an evening?

AC lines... we can move them. And as for the intercooler what I'm seeing is that with our bumpers- the KarumaZ / K2 I think you're right about the 350 being better... while with a stock bumper I can see that the G35 intercooler would be more efficient (slightly). Ours are open straight across the bottom while the stock has the solid middle. So perhaps that plays a part.

As for the turbos... okay... you should see the guys over in 350Z- a couple of them seemed to be losing their minds! Kind of funny actually... was like kicking a hornet's nest and THEN pissing on it when I said that I was thinking about going down to the 530 and ripping out the fuel system. You should SEE the swelling!!

So suffice to say I'm pretty sure unless someone like Gord says "Dustin doesn't know what he's talking about... the DE will literally explode if the 700bb turbos go anywhere NEAR your car... the world will slam to a halt and we'll all be flung into space!" then we'll stay the course. If I have to drag the freakin car down to Seattle to get the tune done so be it.

 

I replied on my 350Z, I have ben away from my computer for a few days so sorry i didn't respond sooner. Dustin is right and Rich(str8dum1) on my350 is on point with his answers.

Rev-up vs DE wont make any difference, 10psi is what they are saying they tested the waste gates to open at that is the same as Dustins and 10psi should be fine on your engine of course no guarantees. I have heard of guys with stock DE engines running over 15psi, with a good tuner 10psi should be fine timing can be pulled to make the tune more conservative and 425-450whp on 10psi should be ok.

Like Dustin said you are going to have similar specs to his, you have better injectors but he has an advantage with his standalone ECU but a good tuner should make out fine with your COBB.