Thinking of going Stillen S/C
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Originally Posted by BeerViper
When you're talking about 90% of your driving as daily/city you're talking about putting around, not getting on it. If you're daily driving on the highway and you want to pass someone ... you downshift. It's going to happen in any auto trans car when you step on the pedal!!! The rest of the time why do you need all the extra power (read: torque) when you're just moving with traffic? A twin-screw supercharger is always building boost, with a centrifugal supercharger (or turbo for that matter) when you are not on the throttle (vacuum) there is no additional boost over atmospheric pressure to the intake. In the end what this means is that NA fuel economy can be obtained in FI engine provided you stay out of boost (not possible with a stillen).
I still can get my 24mpg on highway going back & forth between NoCal & SoCAl...getting around 17~19 in city and again my PERSONAL Stillen fun is going off traffic light, onto or off freeway on ramp. I was driven in one of the Vortech and I don't think that fit my style...again..this is my Personal experience...for the thread starter...go test drive the car and make decision....Hope this helps the thread starter
Great, so where is the mean average? I am waiting? Obviously you don't have it or can't provide it. The tests I have seen show the Vortech lower in power under 5500rpm. 
EOD. I can't look at a graph with someone fingering in a line. Please. Give me the damn graph break down in 100 rpm increments. It is printed with the dyno. Then we can get the mean average. Until then please stop spewing bs. 
EOD. I can't look at a graph with someone fingering in a line. Please. Give me the damn graph break down in 100 rpm increments. It is printed with the dyno. Then we can get the mean average. Until then please stop spewing bs.
Originally Posted by sentry65
ok screw it I have all the mean area of those graphs in a % of area under the curve from 2200-5500 rpms 2200-6600rpms, but if you say they're useless and not aligned (there's going to be some error just cause all these people didn't dyno on the same day at the same place you know) then i suppose those dynos are 100% useless then I won't post the info - shame, I thought people would find it useful
not aligned? WTF? I have them aligned down to the pixel - and like I said, the very nature of people's dyno graphs means there's room for error in the first place.
I thought we were interested in what a stillen SC and vortech SC would generally put down in a given rpm range
otherwise someone give me some freakin graphs - I'm offering up some graphs I found
you need a break down of 100 rpms? look at the graphs man - the data is there. Break it down yourself. Have you ever dynoed your car? You don't get a readout of 100rpm break downs - you can get the software to do that usually, but most of the time, people just want to see the graph cause it shows all the data graphically - and that's what people post
give me some graphs - align them yourself if you have better photoshop skills (I make my living in the graphics field - 3d medical animation, photoshop is kid stuff compared to the software I use)
not aligned? WTF? I have them aligned down to the pixel - and like I said, the very nature of people's dyno graphs means there's room for error in the first place.
I thought we were interested in what a stillen SC and vortech SC would generally put down in a given rpm range
otherwise someone give me some freakin graphs - I'm offering up some graphs I found
you need a break down of 100 rpms? look at the graphs man - the data is there. Break it down yourself. Have you ever dynoed your car? You don't get a readout of 100rpm break downs - you can get the software to do that usually, but most of the time, people just want to see the graph cause it shows all the data graphically - and that's what people post
give me some graphs - align them yourself if you have better photoshop skills (I make my living in the graphics field - 3d medical animation, photoshop is kid stuff compared to the software I use)
Originally Posted by sentry65
because they have big displacement and are a V8...more potential. Had nothing to do with ford using roots blowers. Roots blowers generally are more reliable because the power is all low in the powerband and not up high where you're going WOT. That means warrenty work is cheaper for Ford in the long run
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From: AZ
are you now saying those dynocharts actually ARE correct? (pulled them right off of other forums mind you)
yeah I've had the percentages ever since early this morning, but I'm not posting them if you say they're BS or are demanding 100 rpm hp increments - cause that info is contained in the graphs themselves in the first place
if you want them though and will agree that those graphs are correct within reason, I'll post them
yeah I've had the percentages ever since early this morning, but I'm not posting them if you say they're BS or are demanding 100 rpm hp increments - cause that info is contained in the graphs themselves in the first place
if you want them though and will agree that those graphs are correct within reason, I'll post them
Originally Posted by sentry65
hmm well i dunno, I suppose many people have messed that one up cause lots of publications like sport Z magazine etc have said it's a roots SC. I guess Stillen does say it's twin screw on their website, but they're so similar anyway I don't see a big issue with calling it one or the other. Twin screw is basically a modified roots type that's a little more effient than roots
either way though it does what it does regardless of what it is labeled
some reference for those that care:
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/supercharger3.htm
either way though it does what it does regardless of what it is labeled
some reference for those that care:
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/supercharger3.htm
Please show us where they mentioned this.
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From: AZ
Originally Posted by G35_TX
I doubt SZ magazine said it was a roots without saying its a twin screw. Please show us where they mentioned this.
Please show us where they mentioned this.I will get out the issue when I get home....they had a full explanation of roots and centrifugal SC's. Maybe they mentioned twin screw somewhere in the text, but they DID have a whole section about ROOTS VS CENTRIFUGAL
Originally Posted by BeerViper
The difference is in the mechanics of how each supercharger works. A roots blower has no internal compression ratio and a twin screw (and centrifugal) do. By having an internal compression you gain thermal and volumetric efficiency.
I'm not trying to flame anyone here but this is how misinformation spreads... if you are not informed factually about something then please don't state it that way. I can understand (somewhat) if you are going by a magazine article that misstated something. Just goes to show you that you need to take everything you read with a grain of salt or two because some of it may be @ss-speak.
I'm not trying to flame anyone here but this is how misinformation spreads... if you are not informed factually about something then please don't state it that way. I can understand (somewhat) if you are going by a magazine article that misstated something. Just goes to show you that you need to take everything you read with a grain of salt or two because some of it may be @ss-speak.
I agree. He hasn't been right on most of his info he has posted so far in this thread plus he can't even give us the data to prove it.
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From: AZ
fine whatever, you said the dynos are all off and therefore they're BS. I said to give me some dynocharts that you're happy with and you haven't. So whatever
here's my percentages anyway - but pay no attention to them cause remember they're BS
These are TOTAL AREA under the curve for the given rpm range. It doesn't reflect where the power is located or real world times - just total area as you requested
If dynos would record under 2200 rpms the stillen would fare slightly better, but not by a lot. No one is really going to care about 1000-2000 rpms anyway. Hell, my car idles at 1200 rpms
If you think I'm skewing the numbers or doing anything wrong as far as getting the percents, I dunno what to say. I'll post up full res versions of the filled in graphs and you can average them yourself if you have the software to do it, but you'll just reach the same numbers. Otherwise you do it yourself with your own graphs...So far I'm the only one here providing any graphs, data, and videos....
despite people's driving style or lack of wanting to downshift or whatever, this shows in plain numbers where the stillen does better and where it doesn't
This data shows the exact same result as taking 100rpm increments only it's more accurate because it factors in the data in between 100 rpm increments. Why don't YOU take those charts and write down each 100 rpm increment hp/tq number for each car? I have better things to do than to be so tedius when my method is actually more accurate - if you've ever taken precalculous/calculous and have a basic understanding of how graphic software calculates numbers/colors you should understand why it is, but I'm more than happy to let you calculate rpm by rpm by rpm by rpm all day long - you'll reach pretty close to the same data (you'll have a little error in each 100 rpm increment because how do you actually know if it's 295whp or 294.86whp? just by looking at a low res dyno chart?)
IMO people interested in going WOT should mostly pay attention to hp on these since hp takes tq and factors in engine rpm speed - hence why you shift up high near redline.
Torque is more useful for daily driving people to pay attention to since that's what gives you the oomph and good throttle response
then I averaged the numbers. People looking for a 50/50 mix of daily driving and WOT should maybe pay attention to that the most
2200-redline
323whp
stillen hp = 51%
stillen tq = 60%
avg = 55.5%
350whp
vortech hp = 52%
vortech tq = 60%
avg = 56%
400whp
vortech hp = 56%
vortech tq = 65%
avg = 60.5%
450whp
vortech hp = 67%
vortech tq = 75%
avg = 71%
2200-5500 rpms
323whp
stillen hp = 45%
stillen tq = 61%
avg = 53%
350whp
vortech hp = 45%
vortech tq = 58%
avg = 51.5%
400whp
vortech hp = 48%
vortech tq = 63%
avg = 55.5%
450whp
vortech hp = 58%
vortech tq = 73%
avg = 65.5%
2200-4000 rpms
323whp
stillen hp = 36%
stillen tq = 60%
avg = 48%
350whp
vortech hp = 33%
vortech tq = 53%
avg = 43%
400whp
vortech hp = 35%
vortech tq = 58%
avg = 46.5
450whp
vortech hp = 44%
vortech tq = 66%
avg = 55%
2200-3000 rpms
323whp
stillen hp = 31%
stillen tq = 59%
avg = 45%
350whp
vortech hp = 27%
vortech tq = 50%
avg = 38.5%
400whp
vortech hp = 29%
vortech tq = 55%
avg = 42%
450whp
vortech hp = 37%
vortech tq = 60%
avg = 48.5%
3500-5000 rpms (midrange)
323whp
stillen hp = 50%
stillen tq = 61%
avg = 55.5%
350whp
vortech hp = 51%
vortech tq = 62%
avg = 56.5%
400whp
vortech hp = 54%
vortech tq = 66%
avg = 60%
450whp
vortech hp = 65%
vortech tq = 78%
avg = 71.5%
4300-redline WOT range (gears 1-3)
323whp
stillen hp = 71%
stillen tq = 68%
avg = 69.5%
350whp
vortech hp = 75%
vortech tq = 73%
avg = 74%
400whp
vortech hp = 80%
vortech tq = 78%
avg = 79%
450whp
vortech hp = 88%
vortech tq = 87%
avg = 87.5%
5000-redline WOT range (gears 4-6)
323whp
stillen hp = 65%
stillen tq = 59%
avg = 62%
350whp
vortech hp = 71%
vortech tq = 65%
avg = 68%
400whp
vortech hp = 78%
vortech tq = 71%
avg = 74.5%
450whp
vortech hp = 90%
vortech tq = 82%
avg = 86%
I'm more than happy to give % for ST and TT kits too if someone has a particular dyno graph they want calculated, but it can't be much above 450whp because otherwise it'll be outside of the range I used to calculate the vortech and stillen kits
here's my percentages anyway - but pay no attention to them cause remember they're BS
These are TOTAL AREA under the curve for the given rpm range. It doesn't reflect where the power is located or real world times - just total area as you requestedIf dynos would record under 2200 rpms the stillen would fare slightly better, but not by a lot. No one is really going to care about 1000-2000 rpms anyway. Hell, my car idles at 1200 rpms
If you think I'm skewing the numbers or doing anything wrong as far as getting the percents, I dunno what to say. I'll post up full res versions of the filled in graphs and you can average them yourself if you have the software to do it, but you'll just reach the same numbers. Otherwise you do it yourself with your own graphs...So far I'm the only one here providing any graphs, data, and videos....
despite people's driving style or lack of wanting to downshift or whatever, this shows in plain numbers where the stillen does better and where it doesn't
This data shows the exact same result as taking 100rpm increments only it's more accurate because it factors in the data in between 100 rpm increments. Why don't YOU take those charts and write down each 100 rpm increment hp/tq number for each car? I have better things to do than to be so tedius when my method is actually more accurate - if you've ever taken precalculous/calculous and have a basic understanding of how graphic software calculates numbers/colors you should understand why it is, but I'm more than happy to let you calculate rpm by rpm by rpm by rpm all day long - you'll reach pretty close to the same data (you'll have a little error in each 100 rpm increment because how do you actually know if it's 295whp or 294.86whp? just by looking at a low res dyno chart?)
IMO people interested in going WOT should mostly pay attention to hp on these since hp takes tq and factors in engine rpm speed - hence why you shift up high near redline.
Torque is more useful for daily driving people to pay attention to since that's what gives you the oomph and good throttle response
then I averaged the numbers. People looking for a 50/50 mix of daily driving and WOT should maybe pay attention to that the most
2200-redline
323whp
stillen hp = 51%
stillen tq = 60%
avg = 55.5%
350whp
vortech hp = 52%
vortech tq = 60%
avg = 56%
400whp
vortech hp = 56%
vortech tq = 65%
avg = 60.5%
450whp
vortech hp = 67%
vortech tq = 75%
avg = 71%
2200-5500 rpms
323whp
stillen hp = 45%
stillen tq = 61%
avg = 53%
350whp
vortech hp = 45%
vortech tq = 58%
avg = 51.5%
400whp
vortech hp = 48%
vortech tq = 63%
avg = 55.5%
450whp
vortech hp = 58%
vortech tq = 73%
avg = 65.5%
2200-4000 rpms
323whp
stillen hp = 36%
stillen tq = 60%
avg = 48%
350whp
vortech hp = 33%
vortech tq = 53%
avg = 43%
400whp
vortech hp = 35%
vortech tq = 58%
avg = 46.5
450whp
vortech hp = 44%
vortech tq = 66%
avg = 55%
2200-3000 rpms
323whp
stillen hp = 31%
stillen tq = 59%
avg = 45%
350whp
vortech hp = 27%
vortech tq = 50%
avg = 38.5%
400whp
vortech hp = 29%
vortech tq = 55%
avg = 42%
450whp
vortech hp = 37%
vortech tq = 60%
avg = 48.5%
3500-5000 rpms (midrange)
323whp
stillen hp = 50%
stillen tq = 61%
avg = 55.5%
350whp
vortech hp = 51%
vortech tq = 62%
avg = 56.5%
400whp
vortech hp = 54%
vortech tq = 66%
avg = 60%
450whp
vortech hp = 65%
vortech tq = 78%
avg = 71.5%
4300-redline WOT range (gears 1-3)
323whp
stillen hp = 71%
stillen tq = 68%
avg = 69.5%
350whp
vortech hp = 75%
vortech tq = 73%
avg = 74%
400whp
vortech hp = 80%
vortech tq = 78%
avg = 79%
450whp
vortech hp = 88%
vortech tq = 87%
avg = 87.5%
5000-redline WOT range (gears 4-6)
323whp
stillen hp = 65%
stillen tq = 59%
avg = 62%
350whp
vortech hp = 71%
vortech tq = 65%
avg = 68%
400whp
vortech hp = 78%
vortech tq = 71%
avg = 74.5%
450whp
vortech hp = 90%
vortech tq = 82%
avg = 86%
I'm more than happy to give % for ST and TT kits too if someone has a particular dyno graph they want calculated, but it can't be much above 450whp because otherwise it'll be outside of the range I used to calculate the vortech and stillen kits
Last edited by sentry65; Apr 21, 2006 at 12:09 AM.
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From: AZ
Originally Posted by G35_TX
I doubt SZ magazine said it was a roots without saying its a twin screw. Please show us where they mentioned this.
Please show us where they mentioned this.Sport Z Magazine page 36 top right paragraph of spring 2004, volume 4, issue 2:
"Stillen uses a roots supercharger which is entirely different. A pair of counter-rotating lobes pack air directly into a custom intake plenum....."
"The power delivery on a roots blower is amazing - no running up the rpm band is necessary, massive torque is available from just off idle....."
It actually never does mention "twin screw" - closest thing it says is "counter-rotating lobes" which is how both roots and twin screw work
also, it's mentioned in this Stillen video a couple times that it is roots - by Sport Z magazine and Stillen - 73.4 megs
http://www.zfilms.org/SportZMag/SportZTestDrive-384.wmv
there's a nice suprise in that video at 22:14 - 22:27 that is most impressive
Last edited by sentry65; Apr 20, 2006 at 10:53 PM.
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Joined: Sep 2004
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From: Miami, FL
Originally Posted by sentry65
Sport Z Magazine page 36 top right paragraph of spring 2004, volume 4, issue 2:
"Stillen uses a roots supercharger which is entirely different. A pair of counter-rotating lobes pack air directly into a custom intake plenum....."
"The power delivery on a roots blower is amazing - no running up the rpm band is necessary, massive torque is available from just off idle....."
It actually never does mention "twin screw" - closest thing it says is "counter-rotating lobes" which is how both roots and twin screw work
also, it's mentioned in this Stillen video a couple times that it is roots - by Sport Z magazine and Stillen - 73.4 megs
http://www.zfilms.org/SportZMag/SportZTestDrive-384.wmv
there's a nice suprise in that video at 22:14 - 22:27 that is most impressive
"Stillen uses a roots supercharger which is entirely different. A pair of counter-rotating lobes pack air directly into a custom intake plenum....."
"The power delivery on a roots blower is amazing - no running up the rpm band is necessary, massive torque is available from just off idle....."
It actually never does mention "twin screw" - closest thing it says is "counter-rotating lobes" which is how both roots and twin screw work
also, it's mentioned in this Stillen video a couple times that it is roots - by Sport Z magazine and Stillen - 73.4 megs
http://www.zfilms.org/SportZMag/SportZTestDrive-384.wmv
there's a nice suprise in that video at 22:14 - 22:27 that is most impressive
stop wasting your time with this guy. I think you have posted enough info and backed it all up when ever you've been called out.
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 375
Likes: 1
From: corona
stillen vs vortech
I have a stillen and I would love to race a vortech. I live in california and would enjoy seeing a vortech run. See is believing does someone out there want to kill my stillen? (if you can?)I cant wait for fontana to open back up. I wanna race.
Originally Posted by sentry65
Sport Z Magazine page 36 top right paragraph of spring 2004, volume 4, issue 2:
"Stillen uses a roots supercharger which is entirely different. A pair of counter-rotating lobes pack air directly into a custom intake plenum....."
"The power delivery on a roots blower is amazing - no running up the rpm band is necessary, massive torque is available from just off idle....."
It actually never does mention "twin screw" - closest thing it says is "counter-rotating lobes" which is how both roots and twin screw work
also, it's mentioned in this Stillen video a couple times that it is roots - by Sport Z magazine and Stillen - 73.4 megs
http://www.zfilms.org/SportZMag/SportZTestDrive-384.wmv
there's a nice suprise in that video at 22:14 - 22:27 that is most impressive
"Stillen uses a roots supercharger which is entirely different. A pair of counter-rotating lobes pack air directly into a custom intake plenum....."
"The power delivery on a roots blower is amazing - no running up the rpm band is necessary, massive torque is available from just off idle....."
It actually never does mention "twin screw" - closest thing it says is "counter-rotating lobes" which is how both roots and twin screw work
also, it's mentioned in this Stillen video a couple times that it is roots - by Sport Z magazine and Stillen - 73.4 megs
http://www.zfilms.org/SportZMag/SportZTestDrive-384.wmv
there's a nice suprise in that video at 22:14 - 22:27 that is most impressive
Thank you. BTW, when it said that it gained about 50 whp, wasn't that without the intercooler? I think (could be wrong again ) that the video was showing stage I as stage II wasn't finished at the time of the video... But again, I'm not sure. I can say this though, I am so looking forward to tomorrow. I'll be picking my car up. I'll post my dyno results. Boy, I hope they are good though.