ok is ALL you're interested in is the power under 5500? Yeah stillen would be close. If you factor in the entire rpm range though, guess who my bets are on? I'll totally do this if we can decide on something, but personally I don't care about strictly under 5500 rpms, but I can calculate that anyway

seriously, who runs a stock vortech? Obviously a STOCK vortech won't compete with a stillen in the area below 4500 rpms...


how about we take the most badass stillen stage 4 dynochart and the strongest vortech chart and I come up with some comparison numbers?


the stillen starts running into a wall when it starts trying to go above 340-350whp. The vortech seems to run into that wall around 475whp so far

 

can you post the Dyno?

 

I have a near stock stillen and near stock vortech dyno from that SPEED article - numbers seem typical to me.

I can chart them out so you can see them, but it isn't anything special. In terms of full area under the curve, just eyeballing it right now I'd say hp is about the same, but the stillen does have more tq area under the tq curve - not by a LOT or anything though. Thing is the vortech has a whole buttload of potential, while the stillen has just a little as far as increasing power

I'd still say though that between the two cars in that article that the stillen would get a better launch and the vortech would gradually start catching up to it and possibly even passing it in the 1/4 mile

the 0-60 for both cars in that article were 4.9 sec

the vortech did 1/4 mile at 13 sec @ 110.5mph
stillen did 13.5 @108.2mph

the 1/4 mile times though are a grain of salt though cause both cars are set up pretty different


the vortech car in that article for anyone curious made 359whp at 6450 and 317 tq at 4290

I dunno, I've been looking around for stillen dynos and keep getting people saying their stillen stage 3 with the 7 lb pulley got them 296whp and stage 2 got 284whp - on a dynojet I think. My NA car would be around 285whp on a dynojet, but it obviously wouldn't be as meaty down low

oh just found a 323whp stage III - here's a pic

 

And that's how you come to the conclusion that the JWT is the safest? There are a total of my 15 jwt kits on the street and at least half of them are riding around on built motors. Dude you are just talking out of your ****.

 

I'm not making a reply to this to add to the arguments that seem to be going here. But I just wanted to let you know that I am having the stage II stillen sc installed on my car as we speak. I will pick it up friday. I will get a dyno when I go to pick it up. I also had a dyno before I had it installed. So if you would like, I'll post up the difference of the before and after. I honestly don't know what it will be and I could honestly be very disappointed. But I'll do it anyways. I'm here to have fun and that's it and to get along with EVERYONE.

 

that's cool, we all like seeing before and after dyno charts and if you gain a good amount of power then it was worth it. The stillen is very straight forward and you should have a solid reliable car


i'm not sure what's being argued anymore. Everyone has been talking about two totally different driving styles - street driving where you never go above 4k rpms, and WOT driving where you drive to redline.

I'll call a truce and say that it'd be way cheaper to buy a stillen and get nice daily driven <5000rpm performance than a vortech and do a ton of stuff to it to try to help out it's low end tq.

If you daily drive the car and rarely go above 4500 rpms or so, the stillen is the better choice over a vortech. If you like flooring the pedal and downshifting (helps having a really light clutch cause you can downshift so fast) then the vortech might be a better choice since you'll be in the upper powerband more

My NA car I felt had plenty of low end tq for what I used low end power for and felt the high end is what I wanted improved. I don't have the $ on hand to dive into a full out twin turbo build up so I went with the vortech which seems like a pretty flexible setup in my case since I like autox and road course and maybe some 1/4 mile here and there. I could have gone single turbo and get more torque, but I wasn't going crazy over the mountain tq curve and the S-shaped hp curves I've been seeing.




I know we're past this now, but that ATI procharger video - yeah the only power mods Ben had were test pipes and the crawford plenum. And even still on his automatic Z, he still only made 359whp and still pulled off that 12.374@112.91

i'm going thru the list
emanage - for tuning and safety - helped get the 359 (which isn't very high by today's standards anymore)

the 440 injectors, fuel return system, walbro fuel pump - that's just to deliver safe fuel pressure, not for power

The ECU flash was to raise the rev limiter and I think he was also using that as a base map for the ATI kit that was later fine tuned with the emanage

the 1 step colder spark plugs - again if anything you'd lose 1-2 hp with these. They're mainly a safety thing with making that much power up that high, it's just a precaution. They aren't so much required with the stillen kit because the stillen stars losing power up high as it starts falling down in power.

his tires were 235mm PS2's. And otherwise he's a great driver - with an automatic no less. So I agree with everything Gman2004 has said about Ben's setup vs a stillen kit. The stillen kit doesn't make enough power (peak power) to need a fuel return system or bigger injectors - it uses an additional injector instead. It doesn't need any sort of piggyback or ECU flash - it comes pretuned out of the box and even if the tune isn't spot on, the power level is low enough (as far as peak hp) that there's no worry about the engine stressing so much.

The stillen makes lots of lower end power and not as much high end power - that in itself means it'll be way more reliable than the vortech. Though Stillen has blown people's engines up with the stage 4 strangly

 

So enough infos for you to decide yet?

 

Wow. Vortech doesn't make the higher average power. Stillen DOES. Stillen makes gobs more power than vortech under 5500 rpm. Vortech makes some above 5500. Not enough to warranty a vortech and definitely not near enough to win a race. We will do the full power curve below and above 5500.

Stage 2 and a stock vortech is what we are discussing here.

 

Really, but no one seems to have a problem with them yet. So how am I talking out of my *** smartass?

 

I am still waiting for the break down sheets.

 

we're talking about stage 2 and what whp on a vortech?

yeah stock vortech and stock stillen, when you add up all the area under the curve the stillen has more power - um i've been saying the stock stillen SC is a better bang for the buck when stock have I not? When you want more power though the vortech is the better deal

it's when you start wanting more power that the vortech puts out and the stillen doesn't. Ok so your average stock vortech kit still has like 100+ more whp to hand to you if you buy pullies and breathing mods. The stillen will give you maybe 50more whp than a stock stage 1 or 2

when you factor that in - if you decide that you're going for 400+whp on a vortech, guess which one has by far more area under the curve - for the entire RPM range

again we're talking two different driving styles - so buy what fits your style.

Tell you what, since no one is saying what whp for what kit to calculate - I'll do a few scenerios later on today and that will explain in numbers what I've been saying.

but for the record, if all you care about us <5500 rpms, just get the stillen kit and shut up. The rest of us bought a sports car to go WOT

 

here's a couple graphs - I haven't calculated the area under 5500 rpms or the entire rpm area yet, but you can see what i'm talking about at least


323 whp stillen seems about what the average is these days

400 whp vortech is about what your average vortech makes these days

And then here's a 450whp vortech for comparison

I'd like to get a dyno of a 340-350whp stillen, but they're hard to come by - find me one and I'll compare them


for both these graphs the black is vortech and red/blue is stillen...I think red was stage 2 and blue was stage 3

 

ok now here's a bone stock vortech vs the stillen stage 3

stillen is red/blue

and vortech is black/green - I traced over the graph and changed the color from the original dyno to clean it up cause it was a big mess of red and blue lines otherwise

 

Wow your missing the point entirely. If you want 400+ hp for only bragging rights, get the Vortech. But if you want a car that actually performs get the Stillen. Vortech car will not out perform a Stillen just because it has to build boost and Stillens has full boost off idle. Why do you think Lightings are so damn fast? Or Mustang Cobras with this type of SuperCharger? Even if Vortech had a pulley upgrade and you put the Stage 4 Stillen, the Stillen will still make more power. And not going by peak #s, going by mean average #'s.

*** Still waiting for the dyno break down sheets ***

 

Those graphs are not even correctly aligned. Please give me the break down of each rpm 100. Then we will do mean average numbers. Until you do so, this discussion is useless.