When you shake the foundations of someones beliefs, the first stage is denial.

I had a hard time with this also, but proof is proof.

 

I do believe I just wasted an hour of my time reading the same opinions over...and over...and over...and over...

I'll be ordering Amsoil for both my motor AND my transmission. If anything blows up, I'll be sure to let you all, and Amsoil for that matter, be "in the know"

 

1 hour into the thread and this may well be one of the few logical, rational statements made. The realities are that no one here is an expert in oil, petrochemicals, engine lubrication, renewable fuels & chemicals, biomass or biorefineries.

Proof that one synthetic out of those discussed (Mobil 1, Amsoil, RP, German Castrol, Penn Platinum, etc.) is superior, does not exist in an empirically validated form. All oils make claims and run tests, but none have claimed the Holy Grail.

Evidence that Mobil 1 is not fully synthetic has yet to be demonstrated and careful reading of the response letter from the manufacturer does not indicate otherwise. Evidence that it is inferior in the VQ is also statistically lacking--- the sampling size is too small and the comparison conditions have too many confounding variables (as mentioned by HiTechOilCo above) from which to draw a statistical conclusion.

As someone whose been involved in numerous clinical trials (in medicine) over years, I can safely say that the methods used to determine best synthetic oil, as debated here, are invalid and unreliable. Imagine if we ran a new drug trial on only 25 people and from there decided that the findings applied equally to everyone (men, women, children, obese vs. thin people, African Americans vs. Hispanics vs. White Americans-- all who metabolize medications at differing rates).

Essentially, this debate is moot and based primarily on opinion.

 

Damn..i just bought some Mobil 1!...if i'm changing oil from regular motor oil to synthetic...is there anything special i have to do?!?! Thank you in advance...

 

Might be a good idea to use a quality engine flush so as to avoid potential oil consumption issues.

 

Thank you...any suggestions? this is the first time im going to change my own oil in the G....was going to get a drain plug thing from express but never found the time to buy it...i guess i'll use the mobil 1 since i already bought it and change out if there are any problems after this oil change...

 

Actually, engine flushes are actually dangerous and wouldn't necessarily prevent or cause oil consumption. That advice in the context you gave it not only is incorrect but probably not needed.

Unless the engine was abused or neglected for a significant amount of miles, engine flushes are most not needed on most moderan OBDII ECU controlled vehicles.

The only engine flush I'd ever use would be a very gentle one. Auto RX is one.

Engine flushes that work at the rate you suggest can cause more harm than good.

 

You seem to forget the alternative. Which is nothing. Although the data is small and far from perfect. It's much better than relying on manufacture's marketing. Which is the only alternative. Since definitions for "synthetics" is being stretched to included Group III when it's traditionally only for Group IV types, it's buyer beware.

 

I would be very interested to know what method you use to pick your oil. Close your eyes and grab? Go by the manufactures claims? Please tell us.

In the absence of empirical data, antidotal data is better than nothing (or marketing hype). Some have offered testing of their oil, that adds to the pool of knowledge as we go along. Don't throw the babe out with the bath water.

 

So no more use of M1 ??? i guess i should try a differnt oil to see how things go

 

so do i just drain the old oil and add the synthetic?? my cars at about 40k+ on it and no racing whatsoever...the downside is that the last time i changed my oil was in july08 and since then added 2 quarts to my engine....

 

Anecdotal data is good.... but, good for your car given the conditions you drive in, where you live, how you drive, etc. If you have your oil analyzed, the outcome is for your car and can't be extrapolated to everyone else- this was my point and the one made by HiTechOilCo. If you ran a comparative analysis between 6 synthetics under identical driving conditions, controlling as many variables as possible (age of car, mileage on car, same roads, similar speeds, same altitude, same filters, etc, etc.), with a much larger sample size (at least 25-50 cars per group sample), then some claims could be made.

Understand that I don't have a horse in this race, as such the outcome isn't my issue, it's the "science" and research design behind the conclusions that was.

 

Yes, just drain the dino oil, change to a good filter (Amsoil, Wix, NAPA gold, Pure1, even Nissan), add exactly five quarts of quality syn (Amsoil, German Castrol Syntec) and you're good to go. Don't make it more complicated than it needs to be.

 

Again. As compared to what? That is the question. Although sample sizes for this particular engine are small, sample sizes for each particular oil is quite large. I take it you haven't visited BITOG forum correct? Even on that forum, I don't think anyone mentions they are adhering to the strict scientific method of testing. It's just a group of knowledgable non-biased group of people doing what they can so they DON'T have to rely on maker marketing. (if they did, we'd all still believe Mobil 1 is still a 100% synthetic like Amsoil and thus wouldn't be still advocating the benefits of Amsoil when it's 25%-50% more to purchase.
Cost, time and again, cost all prohibit testing methods that you two are requiring to validate a particular oil's characteristics. Remember even Amsoil hasn't done this type of testing on the VQ series engine. If they have, they haven't provided their data. If you two require the scientific method of testing to validate a particular oil, how is this gentlemen recommending Amsoil to the rest of us? He could say Amsoil is a good oil, but he would have no idea if Amsoil is a good oil for our particular engine correct?

A good oil may or may not show good results depending on the condition of your engine. But as you must have seen, a bad engine would be noticed by the oil analysis information that is provided by the company examining the oil.

A relatively bad oil, won't show good results no matter what engine you put it in. So although determining which oil might be the "best", might be inconclusive, we can pretty much gather what oils to avoid.

Also, again by the analysis, that forum has provided very good evidence that Mobil 1 is no longer the group IV base stock oil (0-40w excluded)that it once was. But again, you must have known this. In addition to their analysis, the email from the company seems to support it. Again, I'll propose the question. If the oil is made up from a Group IV base stock (what true sythentics are tradtionally made of), then why mention Group IV as an ingredient twice? Has anyone seen this method of ingredient listing anywhere else? I haven't. Also why did Mobil one spend all the costs to change the labelling of their product from 100% synthetic to what it is now? Again, the evidence supports a change of material vs a non-change.

 

How many miles on it? How much oil does it use (consume)? I suggest getting your oil analyzed before considering a costly synthetic. If you are using a significent amount of oil, you might be contaminating it before you could reap the benefits an oil like Amsoil could provide. Just my 02 on this.