First, thanks to both Hammerhead i-Eagle Thrust and V35 Skyline GT for taking the time to post all the photos of dipsticks and oil pans... I truly appreciate the help...

Yes, clearly the dipstick on my rev up engine is different than what they use in your 04 Sedan 6MT (hammerhead)... And V35, if I understand correctly what you are saying, you think the dipstick in your replacement engine (the one you took photos of) IS, in fact, the same dipstick removed from your original (verified one quart L-H) engine and replaced in your current V2 engine... And it appears that your dipstick is precisely the same as mine... Same overall length (44.6 cm)... Same distance from the tip of the dipstick to the L mark (3.1 cm)... Same dipstick...

However, at least when that dipstick was in your original engine (you say you haven't verified quarts L-H in the new engine) you knew that to be ONE QUART L-H while I know passionately (confirmed it way too many times now) that my engine/dipstick/pan arrangement (again, 100% stock) is about TWO QUARTS L-H...

So my quest is all about figuring out how they made mine a TWO QUART L-H system... I'm not an engine guy so maybe you can help me understand that part... But I am a math guy (engineer)... So here these numbers... When my dipstick sits in the oil, the 24 mm of the L-H span sits in TWO QUARTS of oil (assuming we are full to the H mark)...

First, an aside for a little math... There are 231 cu inches in a gallon so there are 1/4 of that or 57.75 cu inches in a quart. But let's get into metric... 2.54 cm = 1 inch so there are 2.54 (cubed) = 16.4 cubic centimeters (cc) per cubic in.. So there are 57.75 x 16.4 = 947 cc/quart. So now I want to know what ares (length x width) would an oil pan need to be if I wanted a ONE QUART depth (your engine, at least your old one) over the 24 mm (2.4 cm) depth markings on your dipstick... (And for simplicity I am going to assume a square pan where Length of oil pool is Width of oil pool)... So 947 cc/quart divided by the 2.4 cm depth of my oil "box" (L x W X D) gives 947/2.4 = 394.6 cm(squared)... Now I take the square root of that (because I assumed an that Length = Width) and I get an oil pan L and W (where the oil pool sits) of 19.9 cm... So if the oil was sitting in a square box that was about 20 cm x 20 cm, a 2.4 cm depth of oil would equate to ONE QUART...

Now for TWO QUARTS we have 2 x 947 cc = 1894 cc in TWO QUARTS of oil. Now I want TWO QUARTS contained in my oil "box" that is L x W x D where I know D to still be the same 2.4 cm (24 mm L-H depth measurement). So 1894/2.4 = 789.2 cm(squared)... And taking the square root of that I would get an oil pan L and W of 28.1 cm.. So if I had an oil pan that was say 28 x 28 cm on a side, then that would be how I get TWO QUARTS sitting in that same 2.4 cm depth on my dipstick (that is just like your's V35)...

Now, if I understood what you were saying, you are saying that the oil pan you took pictures of is the stock oil pan off your replacement V2 engine??? Correct??? Looking at your measurements on your pan I could estimate that I see a rectangular region that might be on the order of 19 cm x 24 cm which in area speak would be 456 cm(squared), not terribly different from my hypothetical 20 cm x 20 cm = 400 cm(squared) that I used in my example of the hypothetical ONE QUART system above...

Clearly, in the next day or two I will crawl under the car and see if I can get a ballpark size of my oil pan to see if it really is more along the lines of say 28 cm x 28 cm (what it needs to be to hold TWO QUARTS over a 2.4 cm depth) versus the smaller 20 cm x 20 cm pan that would go with the ONE QUART L-H system...

But that of course assumes they did this trick with oil pan size... Another way would be to have identical oil pans and dipsticks but in a ONE QUART L-H system, have the dipstick poke into the oil at quite a large angle (about 60 degrees off vertical where 90 degrees would be pure horizontal)... If it pokes in at an angle, less volume of oil sits between the L and H marks... Then in my dipstick arrangement, the dipstick would poke straight down into the oil, maximizing the amount of volume represented by the 2.4 cm L-H markings on the dipstick...

So how would you guys guess they might have done this?? Do dipsticks come into oil pans at an angle to the surface of the oil??? Are there places I can go on the internet to see pictures of generic engines and how dipsticks and oil pans and oil all look say in some sort of a cutaway view??? Would it even be feasible to put a larger (L X W) oil pan on the same engine??? Is that even doable??? I know nothing about aftermarket oil pans or any such thing... I'm a 57 year old guy who likes coupes and remembers fun cars (stock though) from my youth... But other than installing glass pack mufflers on my 64 chevy when I was a kid, I know nothing of modifying engines...

But I'm committed to learning what trick Infiniti used to grant me an oil pan/dipstick arrangement that makes my engine "look" better than it is... My car can go 5400 miles before oil starting out at the H mark would finally make it to the L mark even though it is only getting 2700 miles to the quart, a replaceable engine by miles per quart but not replaceable according to the TSB that talks only in mm's down at certain miles driven... To date my engine has passed every test of the TSB (just me doing the test, I've never conveyed any of this to Infiniti).. But I bet I do it with far greater care than they would...

So give me your thoughts as to how you think Infiniti might have made my dipstick sit in TWO QUARTS of oil between its L and H depth markings??? Angled versus straight (vertical) dipstick insertion??? Larger area (L x W) to the oil pool in my car versus a ONE QUART L-H system??? How would they do that??? Again, thanks for the photos and I will measure my oil pan L and W when I can (it's of course on the car and not easy to get at without jacking things up..) Any feedback would be much appreciated...

thanks... bob..

 

^
Yes I'm safely assuming that my dip stick is from my original VQ being there wasn't one seen on my replacement in picture.

On my original VQ oil burner, when I'd be at the L hash mark and add one quart it'd go back to the F hash mark.

Yes that oil pan is from my replacement VQ I received in May 2008.

Here's a picture of the internals with dip stick still in place when I was installing my ARC pan. It's on the right. Didn't have time to paste in an arrow pointing to it.


And another angle:


Not a clue what angle in degrees the stick is inside sump.

G/L

 

Hi... OK, this is for V35... You posted pics of your replacement VQ oil pan (with measurements) after you removed it to put another, custom oil pan on in its place... Though I haven't climbed under to measure mine yet, still your replacement VQ oil pan at least looks (from memory) similar to mine... Looking at your photos with measurements, if I take your L (26 cm), W (19 cm) and D (depth) (3.5 cm) and assume that oil pan is a box with those dimensions (that will actually make the volume estimate larger than it really is, especially because of the "cut off" corners that would make the real "box" length somewhat less than 26 cm), I would get a volume of 1729 cc's... In an earlier post I showed that one quart of oil occupies 947 cc's.. That would say 1.83 quarts of oil (1729 / 947) would fill that oil pan right to the top...

First, does that make sense??? Because that would mean that 5 - 1.83 quarts of oil (3.17 quarts) is not sitting in that pan when its installed on the car and all the oil has been allowed to drain to wherever it goes.. I just went to the internet to cross check my math about how many cc's there are in a quart and sure enough, multiple pages say,

1 US quart is 946.3529472 cubic centimeters. (Round off error got me to 947)...

Is it possible that 3+ quarts of oil sits above the pan, that the pan itself is not really intended to be able (itself) to hold ALL the oil (yeah, less the small amount that sticks to surfaces and sits in little puddles here or there..)???

But then in your most recent pictures that clearly shows your dipstick sticking down into the region where your oil pan would occupy if it was on the car (the photos you took before installing your new pan), that seems to imply that all the oil must be in oil pan when you have 5 fully drained quarts of oil in the engine...

So there's my next mystery... Must be something wrong with my math but it sure looks right...

So my next question is do you believe that the full 5 quarts (which should occupy something like 5 x 947 = 4735 cc's of volume) sits fully in the oil pan in this engine??? Or in any engine for that matter (because I know nothing) is it intended that the oil pan holds ALL the pool of engine oil or does some of it always pool above what would be the pan region????

I am off to work shortly but I can (I think) make one pretty easy measurement just lying on the floor and reaching under and that would be a similar "depth" measurement of my pan like you made on your replacement VQ pan... More on that later...

All the drained oil sit in the pan or is some above the pan????

thanks... bob.

 

Hi... I talked with another buddy of mine at work... We both looked more carefully at your very good pictures of your dipstick extending down into the open space while you had your oil pan off... Our conclusion is and maybe you can verify this is that the L-H marks on your dipstick normally sit in an area that is at or above the flush mount flange area where your oil pan attaches to the engine... There is just no way 5 quarts of oil fit in that little black, original pan. When the car is shut down and all the oil has drained back down, the H mark must be sitting in the region above the top edge of the oil pan... Note that from the L mark to the tip of your dipstick is 31 mm (3.1 cm) and that you then have to travel up another 24 mm to get from L to H... So even if the tip of the dipstick is touching the bottom of the pan, the H mark is 31 + 24 = 55 mm (5.5 cm) above that point and the pan is only (at most) 4 cm tall (depth) as seen in your photos...

So my theory now is that my oil pan is likely just like the one you showed that came on your V2 replacement and that you later took off to accommodate a different, custom pan... I did check the height (depth) on mine this am and as best I could measure (hard laying on the garage floor with the car not raised) it is the same as your V2 original... My pan and dipstick are likely both exactly the same but Nissan did something to the space just above the pan to allow the oil in my engine to spread out. In an earlier post I said it takes a 20 x 20 cm square to allow one quart to sit at a 2.4 cm (24 mm) depth while it takes a 28 x 28 cm sqaure to allow TWO quarts to sit at a 2.4 cm (24 mm) depth so somehow they opened up the area above my oil pan to allow the oil pool to spread out more and hence change my engine/dipstick arrangement to measure TWO QUARTS L-H...

Is there a part number anywhere on my engine that I can actually find and read?? And what do you call that large aluminum housing that I see in your picture (V35) of your new, replacement engine?? The part that sits just above the oil pan but just below what I believe to be the crank shaft, and it runs from the front to the back of the engine??? I think that part is factory modified on my car to make it a TWO QUART L-H system...

Holler back when you can... thanks... bob...

 

My measurements on that pan were outside flange edge to flange edge. You need to subtract the flange width inside to outside edge X 2 to get the actual oil pan inner dimensions. Plus look at the shape of oil pan, it's not a true square with right angles. The length was the longest dimension on that pan to where the drain plug is.

I think it's safe to assume the oil level (5 quarts) sits above the pan level and the LH hash marks are above the pan level as well. The end of stick with no hash marks sits below pan level in the pan sump.

Here's another pix. I don't have one that really shows how much the stick protrudes into the pan area. It was very hard to get these pix at their angle under the G.
ARCPanInstall006.jpg?t=1268702760

 

That is actually known as the upper oil pan and the black pan is known as the lower oil pan.

If any more questions, PM me. Your issue has taken this thread completely out of context of OC and the TSB for it on revup VQ's, thanks.......

 

Question:

I'm getting conflicting answers from Infiniti on when the optimal time when oil level should be checked.

I get different reading when checking my oil levels. One well known dealership is telling me 30 minutes MAX after driving is optimal.

I get different results after 30 minutes of driving vice 2-3 hours of sitting. 30 minutes after driving show oil levels are higher than 2-3 hours with engine off . I'm confused. Should oil levels be higher after letting all the oil drain to the pan? Yes, I know how to check my oil levels.

Per TSB it says 30 minutes or more, but results vary in my case.

 

The dealership wants you to wait 30 minutes, so that they can have you in and out of there as quickly as possible. The longer the engine has to cool down, the lower the oil reading will be.

Infiniti of Mission Viejo, CA tried to pull that on me when I was 22mm low after my first 1k miles on the replacement engine. I was there maybe 20 minutes before they came out saying that it was "only 8MM" low and it is normal consumption for breaking in a new engine. They told me that I do qualify for a new round of testing though (oddly enough) and that I needed to come back at 3k miles on the new engine.

Sadly, my car did not make it to 3k miles. I was driving back on the 55S when my entire car shut down going 60MPH in the left lane approaching traffic. Luckily, the steering wheel locked out at an angle where I could get over to the shoulder with my flashers cutting 10-15 cars off without being able to do anything except yank the Ebrake before slamming into the side of the highway.

Two tow trucks later, I arrived at the Infiniti dealership with them trying to blame me for driving in the rain! There was ZERO oil in my engine and ZERO coolant in the reservoir.

I have filed 6 complaints against Infiniti now and ICA refuses to take or return my phone calls.

 

Wait...why did your steering wheel lock? As long as the key is in the ignition, it should still turn freely...without power assist, but still turn with a bit of muscle.

And the brakes too...you'd lose power assist with the car off/engine dead, but they'd still work if you push the brake pedal hard enough. How did these two features die on you?

 

Yes, the steering wheel, brakes, and entire electrical system blacked out on me. The entire car turned off completely. I tried to restart the car while it was swerving towards the barrier, but it wouldn't as much as turn over. The entire car was a 4K pound brick going 60mph across 3 lanes of traffic out of control towards a concrete wall.

The only thing that saved me was the slight angle of the steering wheel position and being able to disengage the clutch before I got t-boned by an F450.

The steering wheel completely locked up and wouldn't budge a single centimeter. Even with adrenaline running and eminent disaster, it wouldn't move.

Infiniti told me that they couldn't figure out what happened, but they tried to start the car up the next morning after they put roughly 5 quarts of oil in the engine and filled the coolant reservoir and it started right up. They told me to come pick my car up immediately because nothing is wrong with it and tried to make me pay $290 for an oil change without my consent and inspection of the car.

Told them to send the bill to collections because they will never see a penny of that money from me. This is the 4th time that that dealership has put my G35 back on the road as an extremely dangerous vehicle to be operating.

I've given ICA 5 weeks to respond to my claim, so the next step will be a suing them in the next two weeks.

 

Wait...the car had NO OIL OR COOLANT and they said there was nothing wrong with it?

 

Correct. My car consumed every drop of oil and coolant in under 3,000 miles, yet "there is nothing wrong with the car."

 

I'm still just confused that the steering wheel locked up on you. To the best of my knowledge, the locking device is completely mechanical, not tied to any electrict system at all....and having the key in the ignition releases the lock.

Same with the brakes...sure they're hard as hell to use without power assist, but in the end they're still just a hydraulic system and you should still have braking power without the car running.

 

I have a spreadsheet about a mile long with all the oil level measurements I have made... Over the four years I've owned my car I have slowly evolved as to how you make an accurate, what I will call "single mm accuracy" measurement... And I believe the ONLY way to do that is to let the car sit overnight in the same, level location, hopefully in a relatively constant temperature garage (that part might be of minor importance) and makr a measurement the next day before starting the engine... If you want mm scale accuracy I think you have to do that...

I got a good laugh when the initial TSB came out and they had an first bin stating if you were down 2 mm at 0-500 miles, they would replace your engine... I'll bet that cost them a few arguments and maybe a few engines... After watching what I had to go through to get to a place where I could reliably measure my car to a mm or so of accuracy, I said there is no way over such a short span of miles that you could ever say that it was precisely full when you began or that it was precisely down 2 mm at 500 miles... It's just too hard to be that accurate... And then, out came a modified TSB and that initial bin was GONE!!!... I chuckled at that, too...

I am convinced that there is some expansion when the oil is warm (a mm or 2)... And it takes hours for all the oil that is going to drain back down to do so... And when you add oil, you absolutely have to drive the car a significant amount of miles to get that new oil to get moved out of whatever nooks or crannies it lands in... Then, again, you have to let it sit, in my view, many hours, let it cool to nearly room temp and then you can get a reliable reading...

That they make these TSB measurements in some way when you "stop by the dealership" is beyond me... If you're close on the TSB, meaning a mm or so matters, I just don't see how anyone could reliably say a car passed or failed if they made a measurement in one half hour... I would just shrug my shoulders and say "whatever"... If the news went my way, I would walk out happy... Otherwise, I'd be upset but in neither case do I believe an accurate, mm accuracy measurement, can be made within 1/2 hour of shutting off a hot VQ35DE engine...

Now, when I add oil or when I just want to make a measurement, I park the car in the garage, add oil if that is my plan and then leave until morning... I only now make measurements in the morning, in the garage with a cold engine... The only way to do mm scale measurements, in my opinion...

thanks... bob...

 

Thanks. that was the answer I was looking for.

When I did my initial check, I was down past 10mm after on a cold engine that has been sitting for 48 hours.

Per TSB (30 minutes or longer), the readings are SO inaccurate, I can't see how a dealership can make an ACCURATE reading. My oil level checks fluctuate too much to get an accurate reading after only 30 minutes. When taking readings with a cold engine sitting for more than 24 hours, readings were very close to each other.

What confused me was when I did my initial 1000 mile check, Mr. service guy said my oil was FULL after 30 minutes off. I checked my oil level before leaving for the dealership and my readings were around 10mm low which is in the "no good" zone.

On my next check, I'll let the engine sit for as long as I can before my service guy checks the oil levels.