Mobil 1 Oil users
#242
#243
Since the results of the oil analysis would only be for your car, with the way you drive, within the environment/region you are in only, with the type of driving you do, with the air filter brand that you use in the car, with the oil filter brand you use in the car, with the fuel type/brand you use and with possibly the fuel/oil additives you use, then of what benefit is the oil analysis test results from your car to anyone else's car?
Proof that one synthetic out of those discussed (Mobil 1, Amsoil, RP, German Castrol, Penn Platinum, etc.) is superior, does not exist in an empirically validated form. All oils make claims and run tests, but none have claimed the Holy Grail.
Evidence that Mobil 1 is not fully synthetic has yet to be demonstrated and careful reading of the response letter from the manufacturer does not indicate otherwise. Evidence that it is inferior in the VQ is also statistically lacking--- the sampling size is too small and the comparison conditions have too many confounding variables (as mentioned by HiTechOilCo above) from which to draw a statistical conclusion.
As someone whose been involved in numerous clinical trials (in medicine) over years, I can safely say that the methods used to determine best synthetic oil, as debated here, are invalid and unreliable. Imagine if we ran a new drug trial on only 25 people and from there decided that the findings applied equally to everyone (men, women, children, obese vs. thin people, African Americans vs. Hispanics vs. White Americans-- all who metabolize medications at differing rates).
Essentially, this debate is moot and based primarily on opinion.
Last edited by Braintree; 01-04-2009 at 08:48 PM.
#245
Might be a good idea to use a quality engine flush so as to avoid potential oil consumption issues.
#246
Thank you...any suggestions? this is the first time im going to change my own oil in the G....was going to get a drain plug thing from express but never found the time to buy it...i guess i'll use the mobil 1 since i already bought it and change out if there are any problems after this oil change...
#247
Unless the engine was abused or neglected for a significant amount of miles, engine flushes are most not needed on most moderan OBDII ECU controlled vehicles.
The only engine flush I'd ever use would be a very gentle one. Auto RX is one.
Engine flushes that work at the rate you suggest can cause more harm than good.
#248
1 hour into the thread and this may well be one of the few logical, rational statements made. The realities are that no one here is an expert in oil, petrochemicals, engine lubrication, renewable fuels & chemicals, biomass or biorefineries.
Proof that one synthetic out of those discussed (Mobil 1, Amsoil, RP, German Castrol, Penn Platinum, etc.) is superior, does not exist in an empirically validated form. All oils make claims and run tests, but none have claimed the Holy Grail.
Evidence that Mobil 1 is not fully synthetic has yet to be demonstrated and careful reading of the response letter from the manufacturer does not indicate otherwise. Evidence that it is inferior in the VQ is also statistically lacking--- the sampling size is too small and the comparison conditions have too many confounding variables (as mentioned by HiTechOilCo above) from which to draw a statistical conclusion.
As someone whose been involved in numerous clinical trials (in medicine) over years, I can safely say that the methods used to determine best synthetic oil, as debated here, are invalid and unreliable. Imagine if we ran a new drug trial on only 25 people and from there decided that the findings applied equally to everyone (men, women, children, obese vs. thin people, African Americans vs. Hispanics vs. White Americans-- all who metabolize medications at differing rates).
Essentially, this debate is moot and based primarily on opinion.
Proof that one synthetic out of those discussed (Mobil 1, Amsoil, RP, German Castrol, Penn Platinum, etc.) is superior, does not exist in an empirically validated form. All oils make claims and run tests, but none have claimed the Holy Grail.
Evidence that Mobil 1 is not fully synthetic has yet to be demonstrated and careful reading of the response letter from the manufacturer does not indicate otherwise. Evidence that it is inferior in the VQ is also statistically lacking--- the sampling size is too small and the comparison conditions have too many confounding variables (as mentioned by HiTechOilCo above) from which to draw a statistical conclusion.
As someone whose been involved in numerous clinical trials (in medicine) over years, I can safely say that the methods used to determine best synthetic oil, as debated here, are invalid and unreliable. Imagine if we ran a new drug trial on only 25 people and from there decided that the findings applied equally to everyone (men, women, children, obese vs. thin people, African Americans vs. Hispanics vs. White Americans-- all who metabolize medications at differing rates).
Essentially, this debate is moot and based primarily on opinion.
#249
1 hour into the thread and this may well be one of the few logical, rational statements made. The realities are that no one here is an expert in oil, petrochemicals, engine lubrication, renewable fuels & chemicals, biomass or biorefineries.
Proof that one synthetic out of those discussed (Mobil 1, Amsoil, RP, German Castrol, Penn Platinum, etc.) is superior, does not exist in an empirically validated form. All oils make claims and run tests, but none have claimed the Holy Grail.
Evidence that Mobil 1 is not fully synthetic has yet to be demonstrated and careful reading of the response letter from the manufacturer does not indicate otherwise. Evidence that it is inferior in the VQ is also statistically lacking--- the sampling size is too small and the comparison conditions have too many confounding variables (as mentioned by HiTechOilCo above) from which to draw a statistical conclusion.
As someone whose been involved in numerous clinical trials (in medicine) over years, I can safely say that the methods used to determine best synthetic oil, as debated here, are invalid and unreliable. Imagine if we ran a new drug trial on only 25 people and from there decided that the findings applied equally to everyone (men, women, children, obese vs. thin people, African Americans vs. Hispanics vs. White Americans-- all who metabolize medications at differing rates).
Essentially, this debate is moot and based primarily on opinion.
Proof that one synthetic out of those discussed (Mobil 1, Amsoil, RP, German Castrol, Penn Platinum, etc.) is superior, does not exist in an empirically validated form. All oils make claims and run tests, but none have claimed the Holy Grail.
Evidence that Mobil 1 is not fully synthetic has yet to be demonstrated and careful reading of the response letter from the manufacturer does not indicate otherwise. Evidence that it is inferior in the VQ is also statistically lacking--- the sampling size is too small and the comparison conditions have too many confounding variables (as mentioned by HiTechOilCo above) from which to draw a statistical conclusion.
As someone whose been involved in numerous clinical trials (in medicine) over years, I can safely say that the methods used to determine best synthetic oil, as debated here, are invalid and unreliable. Imagine if we ran a new drug trial on only 25 people and from there decided that the findings applied equally to everyone (men, women, children, obese vs. thin people, African Americans vs. Hispanics vs. White Americans-- all who metabolize medications at differing rates).
Essentially, this debate is moot and based primarily on opinion.
In the absence of empirical data, antidotal data is better than nothing (or marketing hype). Some have offered testing of their oil, that adds to the pool of knowledge as we go along. Don't throw the babe out with the bath water.
#251
Actually, engine flushes are actually dangerous and wouldn't necessarily prevent or cause oil consumption. That advice in the context you gave it not only is incorrect but probably not needed.
Unless the engine was abused or neglected for a significant amount of miles, engine flushes are most not needed on most moderan OBDII ECU controlled vehicles.
The only engine flush I'd ever use would be a very gentle one. Auto RX is one.
Engine flushes that work at the rate you suggest can cause more harm than good.
Unless the engine was abused or neglected for a significant amount of miles, engine flushes are most not needed on most moderan OBDII ECU controlled vehicles.
The only engine flush I'd ever use would be a very gentle one. Auto RX is one.
Engine flushes that work at the rate you suggest can cause more harm than good.
so do i just drain the old oil and add the synthetic?? my cars at about 40k+ on it and no racing whatsoever...the downside is that the last time i changed my oil was in july08 and since then added 2 quarts to my engine....
#252
I would be very interested to know what method you use to pick your oil. Close your eyes and grab? Go by the manufactures claims? Please tell us.
In the absence of empirical data, antidotal data is better than nothing (or marketing hype). Some have offered testing of their oil, that adds to the pool of knowledge as we go along. Don't throw the babe out with the bath water.
In the absence of empirical data, antidotal data is better than nothing (or marketing hype). Some have offered testing of their oil, that adds to the pool of knowledge as we go along. Don't throw the babe out with the bath water.
You seem to forget the alternative. Which is nothing. Although the data is small and far from perfect. It's much better than relying on manufacture's marketing. Which is the only alternative. Since definitions for "synthetics" is being stretched to included Group III when it's traditionally only for Group IV types, it's buyer beware.
Understand that I don't have a horse in this race, as such the outcome isn't my issue, it's the "science" and research design behind the conclusions that was.
Last edited by Braintree; 01-05-2009 at 05:51 AM.
#253
Yes, just drain the dino oil, change to a good filter (Amsoil, Wix, NAPA gold, Pure1, even Nissan), add exactly five quarts of quality syn (Amsoil, German Castrol Syntec) and you're good to go. Don't make it more complicated than it needs to be.
#254
Anecdotal data is good.... but, good for your car given the conditions you drive in, where you live, how you drive, etc. If you have your oil analyzed, the outcome is for your car and can't be extrapolated to everyone else- this was my point and the one made by HiTechOilCo. If you ran a comparative analysis between 6 synthetics under identical driving conditions, controlling as many variables as possible (age of car, mileage on car, same roads, similar speeds, same altitude, same filters, etc, etc.), with a much larger sample size (at least 25-50 cars per group sample), then some claims could be made.
Understand that I don't have a horse in this race, as such the outcome isn't my issue, it's the "science" and research design behind the conclusions that was.
Understand that I don't have a horse in this race, as such the outcome isn't my issue, it's the "science" and research design behind the conclusions that was.
Cost, time and again, cost all prohibit testing methods that you two are requiring to validate a particular oil's characteristics. Remember even Amsoil hasn't done this type of testing on the VQ series engine. If they have, they haven't provided their data. If you two require the scientific method of testing to validate a particular oil, how is this gentlemen recommending Amsoil to the rest of us? He could say Amsoil is a good oil, but he would have no idea if Amsoil is a good oil for our particular engine correct?
A good oil may or may not show good results depending on the condition of your engine. But as you must have seen, a bad engine would be noticed by the oil analysis information that is provided by the company examining the oil.
A relatively bad oil, won't show good results no matter what engine you put it in. So although determining which oil might be the "best", might be inconclusive, we can pretty much gather what oils to avoid.
Also, again by the analysis, that forum has provided very good evidence that Mobil 1 is no longer the group IV base stock oil (0-40w excluded)that it once was. But again, you must have known this. In addition to their analysis, the email from the company seems to support it. Again, I'll propose the question. If the oil is made up from a Group IV base stock (what true sythentics are tradtionally made of), then why mention Group IV as an ingredient twice? Has anyone seen this method of ingredient listing anywhere else? I haven't. Also why did Mobil one spend all the costs to change the labelling of their product from 100% synthetic to what it is now? Again, the evidence supports a change of material vs a non-change.
Last edited by Jeff92se; 01-05-2009 at 11:54 AM.
#255
How many miles on it? How much oil does it use (consume)? I suggest getting your oil analyzed before considering a costly synthetic. If you are using a significent amount of oil, you might be contaminating it before you could reap the benefits an oil like Amsoil could provide. Just my 02 on this.